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Old 19-08-2008, 20:55   #1006
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I had a chance to sail one of the early 420 hulls when it was in San Diego. Our electric motors would not generate more than 4 knots and that speed would not last for more than a hour. While under full sail and with 12 knots of wind off the beam, when a Catalina 28 passed us, I knew this was not the boat for us. We never sailed at more that 4.5 knots, even with a licensed captain at the helm. Hopefully they have made some improvements but be very careful if you expect more from this cat than a comfortable place to spend the night.
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Old 23-08-2008, 08:44   #1007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark424 View Post
.... One thing I did notice was that the generator wasn't as quiet as I expected. ... Has anyone added additional sound/vibration dampening? or upgraded mounts?
Mark
Hi Mark

I believe that some of the earlier 420s didn't have much in the way of sound insulation in the generator compartment. There may be other differences in installation that account for the vibration noise on the one you saw. Ours (hull# 52) is very quiet. When underway, we were often unaware whether the generator was on or off and would put our ear to the generator compartment to check. We do have a vibration that makes it way to the starboard side of the saloon table and sometimes rattles cutlery. Other than that, we are very pleased with how quiet it is.

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Old 23-08-2008, 10:22   #1008
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Hybrid vs Diesel - A few more thoughts

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob.hunt@pgadc. View Post
Hi Steve
We are in the final steps of the decision making process but are a little scared about the 420 Hybrid - do we go for traditional diesel or is the Hydrid as good as the PR - cruising Greek island and Med so liitle long haul!

Bob
Hi again Bob

I had a few more thoughts on the hybrid vs diesel debate.

Why by a hybrid?
  • Much easier (and cheaper) engine maintenance (one easily accessible generator rather than two cramped diesel propulsion engines and a generator).
  • Much quieter, particularly in the aft cabins (and cooler and no diesel smells in the cabins or bilges), because you donít have a thumping great diesel inches away under your bed.
  • Much more economical (a single 32.8 hp Kubota using 6.5 l/hr 1.7 gals/hr at full load vs twin 40hp Yanmars using 8.2 l/hr 2.2 gals/hr at full power each).
  • Much greater manoeuvrability and control owing to the tremendous grip on the water provided by the bigger propellers and instant torque from the electric motors and, since the G2 Upgrade, the minute variability in the power you can apply through the continuously variable throttles.
  • Less vibration.
  • More under-bed storage space.
  • An abundance of available electrical power from the powerful generator and the huge bank of batteries.
  • Generates significant amounts of renewable energy by the motors acting as generators when under sail (but this does slow you down and so isnít as useful as you would think).
  • Ideal for connecting renewable energy devices such as PV panels and wind generator (my preferred option), because of the big battery bank.
The downsides of a hybrid:
  • Lower top speed. I think that you can probably expect up to one knot higher sustained top speed from the twin conventional diesel version, although, since the G2 Upgrade, the hybrid comes close to that speed for an hour or two, by utilising the battery power in addition to generator power. However, the 420 hull has been designed for the hybrid, not for diesel; the stern has been barrelled out below the water line to give increased buoyancy and so take the weight of the batteries. This is a compromise that makes the hull form less than ideal for conventional diesel. As a result, the diesel version will have more buoyancy in the stern than necessary. I'm not sure how this affects performance and ride comfort, but I guess these will be sub-optimum.
  • You lose the redundancy of having two engines. However, you do have the back up of the power that you have in the huge battery bank, should your generator fail.
  • The fragility of electric components in a marine environment. However, we have had no component failure in one year of continuous use.
  • The difficulty of obtaining support and replacement components in far-flung places. However, the motors are bullet-proof industrial motors that should outlast the boat. The hybrid power management is all solid-state which can easily be removed and replaced by flown-in replacements. The lead-acid batteries are available anywhere. The generator is an Onan/Cummins with a huge international support network.
  • Control of the hybrid systems is more complex than traditional diesel and takes a bit of getting used to.
  • The big 17.5kVA generator (50Hz model) is too big for economical house power. However, with the huge battery bank and by planning your energy use (AC electric cooking, AC water-making, AC automatic washing machine etc) to coincide with battery charging means you don't have to run it very often
Lagoon have deservedly taken a lot of flack for their mishandling of the delays they experienced in the development of their hybrid system and were guilty of delivering early models that were unacceptable. Despite these early setbacks, they have remained committed to the hybrid concept and addressed all the short-comings.

Is the Lagoon interpretation of the hybrid concept perfect? No, but it's a very impressive first attempt. Will it get better? You bet!

Chris
Octopus, Lagoon 420 Hybrid, Hull 52
Isle of Arran, Scotland
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Old 23-08-2008, 10:58   #1009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulabro View Post
I had a chance to sail one of the early 420 hulls when it was in San Diego. Our electric motors would not generate more than 4 knots and that speed would not last for more than a hour. While under full sail and with 12 knots of wind off the beam, when a Catalina 28 passed us, I knew this was not the boat for us. We never sailed at more that 4.5 knots, even with a licensed captain at the helm. Hopefully they have made some improvements but be very careful if you expect more from this cat than a comfortable place to spend the night.
Hi Bulabro

The early 420s were launched with unresolved problems in the hybrid systems. The G2 Upgrade has now, I believe, been installed on all hybrids. Since having the upgrade, our 420 meets all the performance figures claimed for it at its launch and, whilst not being a greyhound in the performance stakes, has proved acceptable for us on a 12000 mile Atlantic circuit completed over the last year. Sailing performance has also proved acceptable. We found that using the gennaker in windspeeds of less than 15 knots gave us all the speed we needed.

Yes, it is irksome to be overtaken in light winds, but then consider the comfort, safety and huge carrying capacity of the 420. The only time we wished we were in a faster boat was when we were battling against 40 knot headwinds within sight of home, with darkness falling, on completion of our trip. The rest of the time, it was a case of "if you are safe, comfortable and enjoying yourself, what's the hurry?".


Chris
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Old 24-08-2008, 10:21   #1010
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Chris - Congratulations on the successful circumnavigation of the Atlantic Ocean! I bet it must feel pretty strange for all the family to be ashore after so long an adventure.

Sorry to hear that the last few miles were heading into forty knot winds. The weather this summer hasn't been kind. I'm a few miles south of you on the Isle of Man, and it's been like winter, only slightly warmer!

Ancaster have confirmed that the 2009 boats will be shipped with a longer mast, so that should improve sailing performance.

Thanks for the excellent feedback on the 420 hybrid upgrade and the pros and cons of the hybrid vs the diesel. I'm leaning towards the hybrid at this stage and can't wait to get out to the BVI's to assess the hybrid system for myself.

Then I just need to find somewhere to keep one. I'll be interested to hear how you find the west coast. I'm thinking of the Med. and trying to find a berth in the south of France or maybe Palma using the relatively easy flights out of Glasgow or Edinburgh.
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Old 29-08-2008, 12:47   #1011
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Main Halyard 2:1 Block

The main halyard block 2:1 block that attaches to the head of the mainsail has blown out (it skipped out of the block grooves and when tensioned bent the mounting). Unfortunately I am not anywhere near the boat and was not able to detach the offending block and bring it with me.

Anyone know what size/ model the original Ronstan block that is supplied with the L420 is? (I can't see it anywhere on the Lagoon web or in the specs there - also Catco, the vendor, don't know what it is). Alternatively, can anyone suggest a suitable replacement or switch out that they have had experience with?

Thanks in advance.

Hans
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Old 30-08-2008, 04:51   #1012
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Quote:
also Catco, the vendor, don't know what it is).
What! Tell Catco to get off their backside, go down to their dock and take a look! They've sold loads of the things so should be able to get you an answer in five minutes.
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Old 31-08-2008, 07:18   #1013
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Following on from my previous message... Yesterday I called in at the TMM marina on Tortola as I knew there'd be a 420 there. The diameter of the pulley wheel on the 420 main halyard Ronstan block is 3".

I suggest you might like to replace the Ronstan with a similar sized Lewmar product. My similar size cat has a Lewmar fitting and has gone through more than 180 weeks bareboat charter without needing the block replacing.
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Old 03-09-2008, 12:29   #1014
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I am in the market for a 2005-2008 used Lagoon Catamaran 420. Preferably in Florida? Barry
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Old 03-09-2008, 12:57   #1015
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I am in the market for a 2005-2008 used Lagoon Catamaran 420. Preferably in Florida? Barry
Ask Chris nicely and he might sail it back for you, a well looked after 420 with all the gear.

See the link 2007 Lagoon 420 Hybrid Catamaran for Sale only £250,000 on eBay, also, Sailing Boats, Boats Watercraft, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 07-Sep-08 22:41:07 BST)
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Old 03-09-2008, 13:09   #1016
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I am in the market for a 2005-2008 used Lagoon Catamaran 420. Preferably in Florida? Barry
If you find one in Europe, i can sail her to Florida...
Cheap...pm me if...
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Old 03-09-2008, 14:22   #1017
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I am in the market for a 2005-2008 used Lagoon Catamaran 420. Preferably in Florida? Barry
They sent me this today........................


AVAILABLE TO SEE TODAY -
  • Lagoon 380, Hull # 536 - Owners Version
  • Lagoon 420, Hull # 92 - Owners Version
  • Lagoon 440, Hull # 315 - Owners Version
  • Lagoon 500, 4 Cabin Owners Version - Hull # 73
The Lagoon Fleet has arrived in Annapolis, Maryland.
The Annapolis Boat Show is right around the corner along with the boat show crowds.
The Catamaran Company invites you to see our stock inventory of Lagoon Catamarans and our Annapolis Boat Show boats.

If you are in the market for a Lagoon catamaran and would like to take a sneak peak preview of our inventory, please let me know. I would like to offer you a personal tour on the Lagoon model of interest.
Available on our Docks in Annapolis, Maryland - Lagoon 420, Hull # 92 Diesel; the Lagoon 440, Hull # 315 and the Lagoon 500 Hull # 73
This is your opportunity for a very personal inspection prior to the Annapolis Boat Show.

Show dates October 9th - 13th 2008 - If you are planing a visit, please contact me right away to schedule an appointment.

Hope to see you on board a Lagoon. Sailing, soon!
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Old 10-09-2008, 18:51   #1018
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Hello 420 Owners,

I'm a new owner of a diesel version and have been looking in on this forum for some time. My 420 arrived with blue cushions in the cockpit and foredeck. I ordered the boat with Beige cushions as an option. Was wondering if the blue are standard equipment. I cannot find an option listed for blue even though I've seen them on a number of boats. Are their any new owners out their who can help answer the question. Ken
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Old 11-09-2008, 00:28   #1019
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Blue/navy is definitely an option. See Lagoon website : catamarans LAGOON : construction, vente et location de catamarans de croisiŤre
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Old 11-09-2008, 06:36   #1020
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Ken,
We also just got our 420, in the hybrid version, and we ordered the beige cushions in the cockpit and foredeck, but got the navy blue. Catamaran Company offered to get the beige for us, to match what we have in the saloon, but after living on the boat for a few weeks, we decided the blue would be better for outside. The beige would eventually get too dirty and the blue does look good. We do like it in the saloon and in the ownerís cabin area however. So, I guess Iím saying if you want them outside, you can get them from Lagoon, but you might want to think twice.

PM me and I can give you more information.
Jan
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