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Old 24-05-2007, 23:10   #556
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Personally, I consider the lack of a saildrive to be an advantage. I never liked the idea of dissimilar metals enclosing fluids through a large hole in the hull all immersed in salt water, to be a desirable thing. Sure, there are downsides to shafts, but they are simpler and don't have as much critical stuff hanging out there.

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Old 31-05-2007, 12:35   #557
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Guys, what about motor (for sail boat) which uses compressed air.
How it works - The World´s Cleanest Car.
CNN.com - Car that runs on compressed air - Mar 30, 2005
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Old 31-05-2007, 22:30   #558
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So it seems the Martha R will not arrive for our planned departure. TMM has found us another sail boat at another Co. Let us know how your sail turned out.

'preciate it.

paula from CA
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Old 31-05-2007, 22:39   #559
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Bummer Martha R has been delayed. I was lucky enough to go sailing on a 420 last Saturday. It was terrific, you'll love it of course!
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Old 01-06-2007, 08:22   #560
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Swarren --

I'm interested in your impressions of the 420 -- care to share more details?

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Old 01-06-2007, 08:59   #561
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Sure, we went out in San Francisco Bay. It was a nice day with winds around 15 knots.

The boat did well in the lighter wind south of the Bay bridge, tacking easily, and was a fun ride in the heavier wind north towards the slot. It very much felt to me like a larger 380 (the model of boat I own). The instruments weren't set up yet so we didn't have exact measurements.

All the controls lead back to the helm station (including traveler), so it's straightforward to single handle. The bimini makes it impossible to see where the traveler is positioned, so I would tie a small line to it and hang the line over the back of the bimini so you can see it. With the large helm seat, I found it a bit crowded at the helm station if guests want to assist in handling the lines.

The electric motors are very responsive, you move the throttles and the boat virtually instantly and effortlessly takes off. The recharging of the batteries from the props while sailing was a neat feature. It takes some getting used to the idea that the diesel kicks in and out based on battery level, I'm conditioned that when the noise level changes for no apparent reason somethings wrong.

I liked the anchor set up, and am facinated that there isn't a crossbeam in the front. The extra glass in front of the main cabin is nice to be able to sit and relax while forward and it's great to see lifelines across the front of the boat. As far as inside is concerned, it's typical luxury for a Lagoon, with 3 heads in the owners version. I did feel the holding tanks were on the small side though. The galley is spacious and in addition to a frig, there is a freezer. I also liked that Lagoon moved from a curved couch to a straight one, it makes it a lot more comfortable to stretch out.

The only things I didn't like were the bimini, it's big and to me changes the sailing experience. But that's probably just me as I don't have a bimini on my 380 and like that I don't. Also, there is no step to get from the deck onto the cap. That makes it a good 2-3 foot step up or down from the roof, something that I think would be tougher on more frail/smaller individuals and could be difficult in a rough sea.

I'd be happy to elaborate if I can on anything in particular you'd like to know.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 01-06-2007, 12:08   #562
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Thanks, Steve, that is very helpful. Although I've got one on order, my personal experience with the boat, while sailing, was not in good conditions. Light, flucky winds and lots of powerboat wakes.

The boat has been criticized as being "too heavy" to sail well, especially in light winds, and with the large salon, having too much windage and being "too fat" to go to windward. While I appreciate that not having instruments that day makes your assessment a bit more difficult, any other details you can provide and your subjective observations are helpful.

The second issue of concern is regeneration. Did you actually see it regen? How much, in what sort of wind conditions?

Thanks.

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Old 01-06-2007, 12:26   #563
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The sailing conditions where very nice, steady winds and pretty flat water (well, flat relative to normal SF Bay conditions).

We did have a hand held GPS, if I recall correctly the props were generating about 5 amps while going roughly 6 knots through the water (but don't hold me to that, I remember the 5 amp reading, but not exactly when we took it).

We had no problems tacking, and in fact were a bit pleasantly surprised at the ease of the first tack.

As far as windage goes, I don't have enough info for you on that. I didn't notice it particularly but like I said, I own a 380 and may just be used to the "bubble" cabin.

When do you expect delivery? The sail was to test/tune the rigging which was done last week.
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Old 01-06-2007, 17:46   #564
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Well I guess it is official, I am the first charterer on the Martha R. She is expected to arrive in Tortola on the 7th or 8th. Our charter is the 18th, which shouls allow ample time to have her ready. Swarren, glad to hear the throttle was responsive. I was a little nervous about leaving the dock with the electrics. I am very comfortable with twin deisels. How noisy was the generator and where is it located? I heard it was quite, but does burn quite a bit of fuel. The Martha R has the upgraded generator. Nice to hear about the tacking. Did you try to use the port winch for the jib sheets? I thought that might be nice for those who want to help tack. I will have my laptop in Tortola and will keep you all informed.

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Old 01-06-2007, 17:58   #565
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I've not had the fuel usage accurately explained yet. The generator will consume fuel based on load and the load is variable depending upon how much demand is placed on it. If it doesn't get settled sooner I'm strongly inclined to put a fuel flow meter of some sort on Dignity when we move aboard.
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Old 01-06-2007, 18:02   #566
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Hey sail2wind,
Yep, the boat was very responsive to the throttles, one thing to note is they take getting used to since I suppose it's "fly by wire" and so feels different and more sensitive then using a normal throttle.

The generator is located center forward of the cockpit, the cover of the generator well serves as the stern facing cockpit seat. I didn't feel it was any louder then when running the engines on my 380, the only difference is that when the generator runs it operates at a set optimal speed (which, of course, is a lot higher then idle). So it makes noise regardless of how much you're motoring (or even just sitting at the docks) if it's on. Of course, the idea is to have it off as much as possible I suppose.

Interestingly, it was noisiest behind the boat not in the boat. So I don't think folks will want the generator to kick over while at anchor much except during the day.

On using the port winch, this boat didn't have one installed. Just the 3 winches at the helm station if I recall correctly.

That's great that you'll be able to post updates while you're down there. I look forward to hearing more.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 01-06-2007, 19:15   #567
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FYI: The port winch is installed with spin/genaker gear. Jib/Genoa sheets all lead back to the helm station. Yup -- you can tack the boat with working sails from the helm station, without moving your feet. Not many cats you can say that about! (Manta and PDQ are the other ones of which I am aware, but they do it with a camber spar.)

RE: fuel consumption -- there still seems to be some confusion about this. I was also told that the genset runs at full power, using maximum fuel consumption, whenever it is on. However, I've also looked at the Onan specs and this statement (made by a factory rep not necessarily noted for his technical knowledge) just doesn't make sense, but has not been clarified. So, I think ess105 is correct and only a fuel meter on an actual, running boat will give us the real answer. I look forward to having it!

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Old 01-06-2007, 19:19   #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intentional Drifter
FYI: The port winch is installed with spin/genaker gear. Jib/Genoa sheets all lead back to the helm station. Yup -- you can tack the boat with working sails from the helm station, without moving your feet. Not many cats you can say that about! (Manta and PDQ are the other ones of which I am aware, but they do it with a camber spar.)
I rigged my Lagoon 380 that way.
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Old 02-06-2007, 01:36   #569
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Surprised they positioned the geni. right in the cockpit area, from what I recall original drawings had it somewhere near the anchor well, way away from living areas and aft cabins. Does it have a central display like the one in Toyota Prius, displaying charge flow directions, battery levels, etc etc.
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Old 02-06-2007, 08:08   #570
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Actually, it makes a lot of sense to put it in the cockpit. Far easier to monitor and maintain, as well as closer to the battery banks, controllers, etc. The Solomon 410's put it up forward, as well as (I believe) the Leopard/Glacier Bay system. In my mind, that would be a more difficult location to go and troubleshoot a problem (e.g., changing an impellor), since you know that is going to happen at the worst possible time, when the seas are heavy and water is going everywhere. The 420 puts in a protected area, with easy access.

The display is no where near as slick as the Prius. See the pic, below. The system status (charge/discharge levels, etc.) is in the lower right.

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