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Old 05-10-2006, 16:58   #16
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How would you compare a Lagoon 41" to a Lagoon 420, I mean other than from a propulsion stand point?

Also, Lets say that one year after buying a Lagoon 420 for $400K, you wanted to sell it, what would be the typical street price?
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Old 05-10-2006, 20:16   #17
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Interesting question. Let's look at the value question, first. Bucnet says that a 2004 410 S2 in average condition would sell for $332 - $364K. If in Bristol condition, add 15 - 20%, to get it to $381 - $436K. These values are quite close to the retail selling price in 2004. This seems pretty consistent with what I'm seeing in other cruising cats: If you keep them up and in excellent condition (which, I construe as meaning "not chartered"), you should be able to sell them for about what you paid, retail at the time.

The 410, particularly the S2, is a very nice boat -- I actually think they are "prettier" than the 420's, personally. The S2 has a much better galley than the original 410. They are above average in sailing performance, but not outstanding, for a cruising cat. Interior space is significantly less than the 420 (which is only about 15 sq ft less than the 440, which is a spacious boat, even for a 44). Personally, I did not care much for the 410's salon layout with the hutch-backed seating. I think it restricts movement in the cabin. For that matter, I don't like the 420's "hassock" seating, either, especially with no back. (If Lagoon doesn't change it, then we definitely will -- probably with a couple of swiveling captain's chairs or something like them.)

The 410 does not have the island berths, so you end up having to crawl in or over your bed-partner, like most boats. The 410's shower stall has a fold down seat (another thing they left off the 420 that they should put back on). Ventilation on the 420 should be better, judging from the number and placement of the hatches. The 420's genset location is far better than the 410's, both for weight distribution and ease of working on it. Of course, the hard bimini designed into the boat rather than the soft bimini that was an afterthought. Running rigging should be better located on the 420, but we will see.

Those are my thoughts, for whatever they're worth.

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Old 07-10-2006, 05:40   #18
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Lagoon 420 at Annapolis

Had a great day at the Annapolis show. The weather was utterly miserable but spending time with the guys at the Lagoon stand more than made up for the cold and rain.

The special treat was spending about an hour with David Tether - the guy that set up Solomon. Turns out, he's been involved with the design and testing of the Lagoon right from the very beginning. He was very proud of this accomplishment and was more than happy to talk at length. As it was not too crowded, they were able to open up the motor area (which they couldn't do on Thursday) and I took a picture that I am attaching.

Knowing that Tether has been involved has given me a lot more confidence in the system. He has brought many years in the military as well as his Solomon experience to bear on this.

One factoid I can remember off the top of my head is that the regeneration current quoted at 12A is at 72V. This is probably the max at above 8 kts or so but it should help do some calcs.

Overall my wife and I had our expectations exceeded with the boat. Having already bought in and emotionally invested in the boat we may be biased in the same way a parent is with their own children. The immediate impression is the boat feels *big*. Coming aboard, the high bimini creates a sense of size. The owner’s hull feels exceptionally spacious. Having spent a week on an L440, the accommodations are hard to distinguish.

The show boat is hull #2. To get it to the show, I believe it was a little rushed. Apparently, the modification list is already 350 items long. I expect most of these are small changes.

The final pleasure came from meeting a guy who bought his L420 on Thursday. He asked me my base price (as I bought in last year). I think he wished he did.

So - from one proud new parent to hopefully many others - Ill leave you with this one extra piccie of the motor. (PS - those of you going on the demo on Tuesday - please, post your comments)
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Old 07-10-2006, 07:35   #19
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Hi all,

great Idea to set up this thread - many thanks.

We had our hands on No.1 and were more than satisfied with the layout etc. except for what has been mentioned in the other thread already by some other potential owner, the missing desk/office in the owner hull.

We our Hull-No. is somethin in the 60ies (63 or so) and up to now we were officially not informed about any delays by our dealer.

What is concerning us even more is, that two test-sail dates we had arranged in the med have been cancelled. We were informed that there are some problems with the boat but "nothing to worry about"...

Would of course be interesting to know, what these problems exactly are, but up to now we have no further information.

I would like to gather some informations and your point of view on the following, especially of those who have test-sailed the boat:

-How many years of warranty did they grant you on the boat itself and the e-drive-system?
-If you choose the small genset (no A/C) and go full speed with the motors is there still some remaining power to reload the batteries?
-I was informed that Lagoon is still not even thinking about offering the 420 with conventional engines. Has anyone of you different informations on that?
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Old 07-10-2006, 07:38   #20
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Forgot to mention that our boat was scheduled for July 07.
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Old 07-10-2006, 15:12   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don K.
Hi all,

We had our hands on No.1 and were more than satisfied with the layout etc. except for what has been mentioned in the other thread already by some other potential owner, the missing desk/office in the owner hull.
Apparantly there is a list of 350 modifications already drawn up from lessons learned. I don't believe this is unusual for a new boat. Noone at the show was clear what was on the list but I have had promisses that I will be sent the list once it's available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don K.
What is concerning us even more is, that two test-sail dates we had arranged in the med have been cancelled. We were informed that there are some problems with the boat but "nothing to worry about"...

Would of course be interesting to know, what these problems exactly are, but up to now we have no further information.
I think this is no more than unanticipated delays setting up the production line. Lagoon has, understandably, been focussed on getting the boats to the shows and have been deferring other commitments. To get Hull #2 to Annapolis they had to ship it rather than sail it over so the timeframes were tight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don K.
-If you choose the small genset (no A/C) and go full speed with the motors is there still some remaining power to reload the batteries?
-I was informed that Lagoon is still not even thinking about offering the 420 with conventional engines. Has anyone of you different informations on that?
The small genset has no power left over to charge batteries when driving full speed. We went for the larger genset as we don't want this compromise.

I heard that Lagoon have a 10 year plan by when all their boats will be hybrids. They also stated that they designed the L420 hull around the electric motors (rather than retrofit into a design aimed for diesel) so it may not even be wise to consider putting a diesel into this boat.

Steve
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Old 08-10-2006, 15:15   #22
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Hello future 420 owners. I'm curious. What do you plan to do with your 420? Live aboard? Sail around the world, use it as an investment putting it in a charter fleet, occasional use????
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Old 08-10-2006, 23:12   #23
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Great to find such a great site discussing the Lagoon 42! My wife & I just got back from the Annapolis show after spending Saturday & Sunday trying to finalize our decision between the Lagoon 42 & Leopard 43. The hybrid concept is very intriguing & I must re-read all of the posts here (on the other thread).

One other concern we have (which I haven't seen discussed) is the possible danger of the "sunken" cockpit. A large wave from the side or stern could fill the cockpit with hundreds of gallons of water & the only place for it to go is into the cabin, or to go (slowly) out the drain; it can't go out the stern due the "sunken" design.

Russ
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Old 09-10-2006, 04:53   #24
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Hi Russ,

Good luck with your choice.

This issue did worry us for a while. We did talk to a number of Lagoon owners / captains about this and the general consensus was that this was not really a big issue. Cats have a greater tendancy to surf than monohulls which greatly reduces the possibility of getting a breaking wave over the back. Nevertheless, we are considering putting in some kind of structure so we can easily board up the lower part of the door for the odd occasion when, despite our best efforts, we find ourselves in these situations.

We were at Annapolis on Fri/Sat and found it hard to stay away from the 420. This was our first chance to see one having put down our deposit a year ago. Our expectations were exceeded and we are more than happy with our choice.

Steve
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Old 09-10-2006, 16:56   #25
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One more update from the boat show. The Lagoon 420s have 10kW motors, not 8kW as had been earlier suggested.
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Old 09-10-2006, 21:19   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ess105

I took a picture that I am attaching.
Does anyone else looking at this picture get an uneasy feeling about the craftsmanship of the installation. It almost looks like they had to service the motor a sea and didn't have a chance to put the cables back in place before the show. Since they shipped the 420 I wonder if they just wired it up real fast to prove it would work.

I can't wait to hear the report from the sea trials this week.
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Old 10-10-2006, 07:03   #27
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Perspective

I can see how you would see it that way from the photo. What the picture fails to show is the depth of the compartment. To put this into perspective, the wall on the left to the picture on which all the red and black cables are attached was about 2 feet tall. You're seeing all the cabling end on.
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Old 10-10-2006, 20:35   #28
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demo days???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ess105
So - from one proud new parent to hopefully many others - Ill leave you with this one extra piccie of the motor. (PS - those of you going on the demo on Tuesday - please, post your comments)
----------------------------------------------

...The 420 spend the whole demo days at the dock, electrical problems!!!
A fuse box melted??

I am very concerned, what if you have these issues if you are in Guadeloupe or Pacific and no one knows how to repair?

I am thinking 2 x traditional diesel engines big time, I think Lagoon should do a little more testing, let's say a year, or offer a diesel option

Appearantly, the judges for the 'Boat of the Year contest' could not do their test sail, does not look good for that contest.
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Old 11-10-2006, 01:30   #29
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I am getting seriously concerned about our purchase.

If you sum it up: The board of directors stopped the production in order to first solve the problems with the demo boats. Neither the boats in the med nor the boat in the US can do any test-sail. So there must be some severe problems, apparently with the hybrid-system.

Yes, Pieter we agree with you, obviously some more testing is needed and until then we should probably stop the purchase or demand diesel engines. Just the idea of having problems with the electrical system in a remote place can put you off....
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Old 11-10-2006, 09:24   #30
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Well, if pieter97's news is correct, then this could get real interesting. Would Cruising World completely ditch a review/test of such an interesting boat, by the largest builder of sailboats in the world? Anybody know if they got the problem repaired?

I'm really not too concerned about these sorts of reports, inconveniently timed though they be. These are the first 3 boats off the line on a new and different design and there are going to be problems. Parts that were thought to meet spec for the purpose are found not to be. Routings and placements of cables and equipment that looked fine on the CADs turn out not to work all that well on the factory floor, or after being bounced around.

Obviously, Lagoon (like all yacht builders) is using the first few boats as their beta testing stations. That is the dilemma for buyers of the early boats. Early adapters in any complex technology deal with the same thing. Remember the buggy Pentiums? For Lagoon, it has unfortunately come at a time when lots of people and the press are looking right at them. I do hope that they got it fixed, the reviewers are able to do their test sails (which actually may be happening, today, if I recall CW's schedule correctly), and that the 420 compares favorably.

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