Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 11 votes, 4.00 average. Display Modes
Old 03-01-2007, 17:14   #226
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Right now, Australia
Boat: Lagoon 420
Posts: 587
Images: 4
Good News from Lagoon

I have the owners newsletter too and am looking forward to the updates.

Good the see that hulls #4 & #6 are now out of the factory and the rest up to #10 will be ready by end of January.

Quiet Riot 420 is Hull #11 so it must be getting quite exciting for Doug and Charlie.
__________________

__________________
Dignity on the web
ess105 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2007, 09:02   #227
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tampa fl
Boat: Alura 30
Posts: 593
There is a good article about the Lagoon hybrid in the french version of multihull magazine.JC.
__________________

__________________
jean1146 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2007, 18:16   #228
Registered User
 
Limpet's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 154
Again with the Displacement

Did we ever get any definitive resolution on the displacement of the 420?
I know there was some response from Lagoon, but that is like asking the wolf if we can trust him to watch the chickens?
It seems to me that the 420 is way to heavy and I would like to understand why? I just happened notice that the Lagoon 470 is listed at about 20Klbs whereas the 420 is 25K lbs. The Dolphin 460, is listed at only 15K pounds. If this is a true comparison, then you would need to pile three cars on the deck of the Dolphin to equal the weight of the 420.

Does anyone know the true sailing weight of any of these cats?
__________________
Limpet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2007, 18:51   #229
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,283
Limpet --

This is not as easy a comparison as it seems. The EU has changed the way they measure weight such that they are not necessarily measuring the same thing, in the same way.

You can see more about this at:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ment#post53541

Even with this understanding, yes, the boat does seem heavy, and it probably is. Is it too heavy? I guess that depends on what you expect in terms of performance. The only "independent" (and I say that with some doubt) evaluation, by Multihulls World, indicates reasonably good performance, at least in comparison to other cruising cats. We also have the observations by one of our forum members, Peter Cronk:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...html#post50610

He also saw reasonable performance (if you consider that as 50% of wind speed) for a cruiser.

I've been on the Dolphin and I doubt very much that it is only 15K when kitted out in the same manner. Same goes for the 470.

"True sailing weight" can only be determined by taking a specific boat, kitted out as you want it, and weighing it. Folks who have done this have usually been surprised to see that their boat was a lot heavier than they thought.

ID
__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2007, 00:16   #230
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Limpet
Did we ever get any definitive resolution on the displacement of the 420?
I know there was some response from Lagoon, but that is like asking the wolf if we can trust him to watch the chickens?
It seems to me that the 420 is way to heavy and I would like to understand why? I just happened notice that the Lagoon 470 is listed at about 20Klbs whereas the 420 is 25K lbs. The Dolphin 460, is listed at only 15K pounds. If this is a true comparison, then you would need to pile three cars on the deck of the Dolphin to equal the weight of the 420.

Does anyone know the true sailing weight of any of these cats?
If any of these thing's were ever raced, which I doubt due to the weight, there should be records of the wight so that handicap's could be calculated.

Not trying to say bad thing's but I am amazed at the difference in weight compared to say a Schionning of similar size or even my 50 footer which will be around 5000kg dry and 8000kg wet

Dave
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2007, 12:10   #231
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Annapolis
Boat: 40' S&S Yawl
Posts: 2
Several comments on different threads.
Weight - EU standards include weight of full fuel and water, max certified crew (like ten people in this case) all required safety gear for that many people (big life raft and more) + Food and other supplies for three days for the full crew - they are very strict even insisting on computing the weight of the propane to cook meals etc.

delivery - I just saw three 420 in the water in Les Sables d' Oloone all waiting for the upcoming engine Mods - there were about five in the parking lot of the factory at the same stage #11 is porbably completed up to that stage. I inspected #6 closely - the changes are mostly subtle but to the point. Lagoon will not release these yachts until they are confident all is well with them. The recent passage of #3 around the top of Europe to Dussledorf provided more rather trying testing.

Speed -these will never be race boats but are quite compfortable at 8 - 10 knots in 15 to 20 kts wind...don't know max downwind speeds with the gennaker.
__________________
Cat2sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2007, 12:33   #232
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,283
Cat2sail --

I'd be interested in your more detailed impressions of the boat.

ID
__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2007, 13:20   #233
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 192
Owners Group?

Just a thought - shouldn't you guys set up your own website for Lagoon420 owners? I am sure there will be many post-delivery issues you will want to sort out amongst yourselves...
__________________
Moby Dick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2007, 15:07   #234
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 37
Cat2Sail,

can you give some details on the modifications?
Do I understand that they delivered No. 3 to Dusseldorf with a electrical system still not fully functioning?
__________________
Don K. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2007, 15:10   #235
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 37
Moby Dick,

basically a good idea, especially once our vessels are afloat...
But who is going to take the hassle to set it up and keep it running...
__________________
Don K. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2007, 15:31   #236
Senior Cruiser
 
Vasco's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless"
Posts: 7,135
Don K,

When I bought my new boat there was no owners group for that model. I started a Yahoo Group and the thing runs itself. Very little input required. Only thing I did was filch a few email addresses from other sites and send out invitationsto start the ball rolling. Over 300 members now.
__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2007, 17:46   #237
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat2sail
Several comments on different threads.
Weight - EU standards include weight of full fuel and water, max certified crew (like ten people in this case) all required safety gear for that many people (big life raft and more) + Food and other supplies for three days for the full crew - they are very strict even insisting on computing the weight of the propane to cook meals etc.

Speed -these will never be race boats but are quite compfortable at 8 - 10 knots in 15 to 20 kts wind...don't know max downwind speeds with the gennaker.

Lagoon 42 weight

empty 24692 lb or 11200 kg

loaded 31813 lb or 14430 kg


Lagoon 50

empty 41500 lb or 18820 kg.

no loaded weight shown.

Doesn't this make you wonder why these are so heavy ?

If one can build a 50 ft cat out of heavy timber composite that will weigh around 5000 kg empty and around 8000kg loaded, surely these Lagoons should be lighter.

After all they use all the so called best techniques like Vac bag, and resin infusion and foam sandwich.

I just can't understand where in the 50 footer's case the extra 13,800kg comes into it on an empty boat compared to mine, and in the 42 footer case an extra 6725kg compared to say a Schionning 1320 [44 foot] at 4475kg empty.

Now sure my hulls wont cary as much as the Lagoon 50 and the Schionning wont carry as much as the Lagoon 43, but surely making the boat a bit fatter to increase load carrying capacity doesnt add more than a whole extra boat's worth of materials and weight.


Dave
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2007, 18:26   #238
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 48
The Lagoon Owner's Group on Yahoo is pretty active and has expressed interest in keeping the L420 owners there.

j
__________________
http://www.ittykitty.com
Jeff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2007, 18:37   #239
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Fremantle Australia
Boat: Schioning 12.3 "Wilderness" Bi-Rig under construction
Posts: 558
Send a message via Skype™ to Whimsical
Cat I think a lot of it comes from the fit out with veneered plys, solid timbers and other heavy materials instead of things like "Featherlight" glass panels.
I know a guy who built a 55 foot mono stink boat. He spent 25 ton on the fit out without propulsion but it did have granite bench tops. Had two 1200 hp MTUs to shift its arse and he whinges about the fuel bill -DUH.
Some people prefer form over function.
__________________
Whimsical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2007, 18:46   #240
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whimsical
Cat I think a lot of it comes from the fit out with veneered plys, solid timbers and other heavy materials instead of things like "Featherlight" glass panels.
Our boat is specificaly designed not to use featherlight panels or similar.

It was taken into account that non-exotics would be used.

All furniture and bulkheads are 12mm, 9mm and 6mm marine ply with Solid timber features.

Hulls and cabin are 16mm timber core, she's no lightweight and if I had a bigger budget we could save a fair bit of weight.

Dave
__________________

__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lagoon, lagoon 420

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for Creala 36 owners amory Monohull Sailboats 1 11-02-2015 13:01
Fischer Panda Owner's Forum geoffschultz Construction, Maintenance & Refit 1 05-03-2011 21:27
PROUT OWNERS ASSOCIATION Michaele Multihull Sailboats 0 31-08-2006 03:54
Prout Owners Association Michaele Multihull Sailboats 3 29-08-2006 09:44



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:41.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.