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Old 14-12-2006, 10:14   #181
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Traverse City, MI
Boat: Lagoon 420-41'4" Martha R
Posts: 96
If anyone has a question(s) to add to the "letter to Lagoon", I can read e-mail attachments in either "Word" or "Word Perfect". We are now up to 5 owners and 2 co-owners who have signed on to the letter.

Thanks for your support and fair sailing,

Quiet Riot 420
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Old 14-12-2006, 18:04   #182
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Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 420
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Would love to get the pictures.

Have ordered a 420 for delivery in 2008
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Old 15-12-2006, 04:54   #183
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Boat: Lagoon 420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pruim
Have ordered a 420 for delivery in 2008
Congratulations on your purchase pruim. What are your plans? Are you intending to travel, charter or perhaps a bit of both?
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Old 15-12-2006, 10:17   #184
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Location: Eureka, California
Boat: Lagoon 420 -Avanga
Posts: 125
Desperate Times, Desperate Measures

I have a solution to the 420's problems.

Yanmar diesel outboards!

By all accounts these are extremely reliable.

Select the small generator. Remove ½ of the batteries in the propulsion bank. Mount two diesel outboards. Get rig of the electric motors.

You can always use a towing water generator.

You’ll have a huge “house bank.”

You’ll have a very reliable, easy to service, no motor in the living space, no need for a major refit, lighter, and no prop drag, propulsion system.

YANMAR Diesel Power - D Series Marine Engine

Yanmar D Series Marine Diesel Engine
(27 - 36hp)



Diesel outboards that work!
Boat owners quickly relate to the strong advantages of diesels.
. lower chance of electrical trouble.
. much better fuel efficiency
. long, reliable work-filled life.

Oh, I guess you must also be sure the winds are less than 20 knts during a passage. As ID said, WTF?
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Old 15-12-2006, 12:37   #185
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Location: Eureka, California
Boat: Lagoon 420 -Avanga
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Diesel Outboards

Never mind. As far as I can tell, these diesel outboards are not actually for sale anywhere.

Also, please add my name to THE letter.

John Sotelo
California
Delivery spring 2008

I would love to see the pictures QR, S'il Vous Plaît.

sotelojohn@hotmail.com
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Old 16-12-2006, 04:26   #186
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Planet,

we are also seriously thinking about cancelling our order due to the problems that occured with the electrical system.
But we still hope that Lagoon will offer "normal" diesel-engines as they planned to do in the first place when they announced that diesel-engines could be ordered as an extra in 2008. Apparently they could install them in the hatches where currently the motor-battery-banks are installed.

So let´s hope...
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Old 16-12-2006, 09:16   #187
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Location: Traverse City, MI
Boat: Lagoon 420-41'4" Martha R
Posts: 96
I ordered this boat stricktly for the reason that it wouldn,t have diesels, the fuel of the past. If you think that smelly, noisey diesels have no repair problems, then way is it that there are thousands of diesel machanics located in every port all over the world! How do they all stay in business if diesels never need repairs. How many diesel engines will last 100,000 hours like an electric. Have you looked at the torque curve for the diesel compared to the electric, the electric wins hand down with its flat torque curve. Full torque at any RPM. It's time to help our environment put fossil fuels to rest, and the hybrid electric 420 is trying to do just that.

Fair Sailing _(\_
Quiet Riot 420
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Old 16-12-2006, 09:23   #188
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Boat: Lagoon 420-41'4" Martha R
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Apes,

I have added you name to the letter, and will send you a copy via e-mail. Welcome aboard.

International Drifter also wanted to be part of the letter, but I have not yet received his name, hull# or e-mail address to put with the rest of the 7 ( at this time)owners names. I will probably be sending out the letter to Nick on Monday.

Fair Sailing _(\_,
Quiet Riot 420
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Old 16-12-2006, 09:36   #189
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Riot,

we ordered for the same reasons, and I fully agree about the advantages of the electrical system, PROVIDED it would be working...

For us it is a question of safety and we rather prefer to have the usual quarrels with a diesel than having a system which up to now doesn`t seem to be trustworthy. But let`s hope the Lagoon-Guys will get it solved. Nonetheless we have to be aware of the fact that we will be their guinea pigs...

Don K.
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Old 16-12-2006, 10:58   #190
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Boat: Lagoon 420-41'4" Martha R
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Don K,

It sounds like you should be part of this letter to Lagoon. 8 other owners have signed on. If you or any other owners are interested to read the letter and add your name(s), just e-mail me at dblundy@prodigy.net and I will e-mail you back a copy of the letter for your review. I am planning to send the letter on Monday the 18th, so time is of the essence.

Fair Sailing _(\_,
Quiet Riot 420
Douglas Lundy
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Old 16-12-2006, 11:03   #191
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Location: Eureka, California
Boat: Lagoon 420 -Avanga
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FUBAR

Yes, the worst case scenario may be developing. Who knows? I wouldn’t worry about us affecting resale. If the electric system does not function reliably, the word will soon get around.

Regardless, Lagoon totally screwed this one up. How could they bring a bloody non-functional boat to Annapolis? Better to delay the true launch than expose a broken ship to the press!

Completely FUBAR.

QR, is not the 420 really diesel powered anyway? Certainly, the instant availability and response of the electric motor is a major advantage but the L420 is simply too heavy with too low SA/DSPL ratio to go without diesel power.

Although the system configuration allows high capacity storage of clean energy, if you are going to motor any distance or run AC, you’ll be burning diesel.

You can be quite green at anchor if you arrive with a fully charged battery bank and don’t run AC.

The Fastcat 435 is the only truly green catamaran. This boat is extremely light weight and can keep moving in the lightest of winds, doesn’t require much power to motor at a couple of knts and can probably go completely without diesel onboard.

The Fastcat is $125K more base (my cost) vs. the 420 and looks not nearly as livable or attractive.

Speed is a low priority to me compared to comfort.

I think it unlikely that I will ever be able to purchase such and enormous, livable yacht, brand new for anywhere near this price again. The dollar is heading for permanent devaluation. “Our” leaders seem intent on aggressively debasing our currency, merging the USA with Mexico, facilitating the transfer our all of our industry to China and leaving Amercia as a third world nation.

If I were to choose a different boat right now, in the same price range? The new PJ Orana 44 looks pretty interesting. The M4600, Fastcat and Salina 48 would be possible if I felt like working another year.

The Hunter 49 would make a nice, reasonably priced world cruiser-if it weren't for that huge chunk of lead attached to the bottom.
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Old 16-12-2006, 11:51   #192
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Boat: Lagoon 420-41'4" Martha R
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Apes,

I have been working on a system for my boat that would have the genset only turn on to charge batteries when they are at a 20-40% DOD, both house and motor batteries. As Lagoon has the system set up now, even if your batteries are at 100%, the genset will have to be turned on right away at anchor for you to be able to use any AC current, and this includes the hot water heater! This is how all boats with gensets work, not very "green" at all.
I have purchased a 2 position high amperage switch that can feed the AC side of the breaker panel with either AC current from a 72V-4000 Watt inverter on one side of the switch and shorepower/genset as your other choice, thus with this switch your genset will never come on and interfer with your inverter(s). When the genset does come on automatically, it would be directing all of it's output amperage to just charging the motor batteries (position 5 on the five position switch). This way you will run the genset only when the batteries are down to your preset DOD (depth of discharge), and not when someone just wants to use the micro or take a shower.

Fair Sailing _(\_,
Quiet Riot 420
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Old 16-12-2006, 13:29   #193
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Boat: Lagoon 420 -Avanga
Posts: 125
I want answers.

Yes, excellent letter, great tone. I would add, that from my perspective, the reason to send this letter is to quantify how far Lagoon is from having a functional electrical/propulsion system.

We a making major life changing plans, and risking our crew's lives, based on the performance of this system. We deserve to know details and contingency plans.

#1 Will they refund our deposits?
Does the system function as advertised?
Have they ever had the system fully functional?
What components are failing?
What changes are they making to the system?
How well does the automated regeneration work?
How many hours of sailing are truly required to motor for an hour?
How long can you motor at 6 knts on battery alone, real life?
Are they going to need a total redesign of the electrical system?
What happens if they can't achieve a reliable system in, say, a year?
Will they offer a diesel option if they fail with the current system?

If I were you, I would not want my boat delivered until I was absolutely certain this system was sound.

I actually can’t believe they offered this boat for sale without having a fully functioning prototype. They sure fooled me. I was told this system was being used on a L440.

I want to know EXACTLY what problems they are having and what they will do to fix them.

QR, sounds like a resonable modification, caution advised.
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Old 16-12-2006, 15:41   #194
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Boat: Lagoon 420
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Hi

I sale 6 month each year, east coast of Aus and beyond.

Have to sell my 410, which has been a great boat

cheers
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Old 19-12-2006, 18:36   #195
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More pics of the L420 can be found on the cruisingworld website : Cruising World - Lagoon 420: Photo Gallery
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