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Old 23-11-2006, 11:45   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intentional Drifter
Quiet Riot --

If/when we get tired of sailing, we can sell our batteries to crane companies for ballast!

Peter --

I didn't mean to consider you as a Lagoon salesman! You have one of the very few reports that isn't, and one of the reasons I have some confidence that the boat will be a reasonable sailer. If I can get 8 knts in 14 true in sloppy seas, that's good enough for me!

ID
Absolutely no offence taken.

I am fairly inexperienced in Sailing so other reports are definately needed. I would not rely too much on good winds for the 9 Dec. Think this is traditionally a fairly quiet time here in Florida but would be good if some other people especially experienced sailors could take the test sail and hopefully experience the regeneration aspect. This was NOT demonstrated nor was motoring just on Batteries.

I am confident, or is that hopefull!!! that Lagoon will sort out the problems. Just wish they would keep us more informed. Bad news or whatever, at least stops the rumors etc and we know exactly what to expect. In my engineering lives, we have always gone by the mantra to confess early and often. When you do have good news the customer is happy and positivbely surprised but is informed, is part of the team and the problem and kept at bay from competitors.
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Old 23-11-2006, 11:50   #152
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The biggest 42 footer in the world

Lagoon designs catamarans that sail well. The weight is not going to be an issue. I believe they are trying to be ďreal lifeĒ with their estimates. Light weight is a big selling point so until you get all these catamarans on a scale, you will never know who really weighs what.

The point of the Lagoon memo posted is that they are being very honest with their weight estimates. Thatís what we need.

I believe these designers are also involved in the Sunreef line of catamarans. These cats are extreme heavyweights and sail great by all accounts. Look at the L500, another behemoth. She sails great in the lightest of winds.

The hull design of the new generation cats allow greater weight. They accept lower top end speed for better load carrying and consistent performance in all conditions. The hulls have increase beam and are designed more like a performance monohulls (same as Gemini). A heavier boat also dampens the often quick motion of light cats. Look at the video of the 420 sailing. She looks fantastic. Stable as a rock.

Look at all the experience Lagoon has building hundreds of 380,410 and 440s. Their structural engineering is as dialed in as Fountaine Pajot.

No, weight is not the issue. These designers know exactly what they are doing in this respect. Itís the control system and new fangled electrical components. Lagoon has one chance to get this off the ground in the right manner. Have they sold Waypoint yet? That was the electric 410 thatís been on the market forever. She crossed the Atlantic. I donít know maybe they finally sold her and I know her owners ordered a L420. I wonít go into the potential effect on resale.

I was wondering why Lagoon was silent about the first launch. We were all wondering what was going on. They just werenít ready to show her off yet? I am probably being paranoid and am totally wrong but itís fun to speculate.

Even if they can get the system to work reasonably well for a test, we still wonít know if the system is reliable long-term.

This drive system would be easy to retrofit:
http://www.re-e-power.com/

I really expected Lagoon to come right out and start showing off their incredible new hybrid system.
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Old 24-11-2006, 00:49   #153
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Lagoon's answer addresses my concern: same boat, different measuring stick. So long as she floats on her lines with all the crusing goodies installed...
I hope some of you will soon have real passage experience and can share it here.
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Old 25-11-2006, 14:25   #154
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Excellence in Systems Design

Just reading through the latest issue of Sail and noticed they have awarded the Lagoon 420 the Editor's Choice for Excellence in Systems Design.

Interestingly, no awards for the multihull class per se.

The commentry itself doesn't really add anything to what's already out in the media.

Still, nice to know Sail likes our boat.

Steve
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Old 27-11-2006, 12:27   #155
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I've been silently following this thread with some interest as I have chartered 'Waypoint' December 10th in the BVI. The theory of diesel electric propulsion for sailboats is sound, and some type of hybrid electric drive is the likely evolutionary path of most vehicles. The question is, will effective application be here in five years, 25 years, or 55 years? Lagoon is banking that it is here today. I'd be happy to report back on my experiences on Waypoint. Are there any burning questions from board members that I can answer while I'm there? I have a background in naval engineering.

Brett
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Old 27-11-2006, 12:49   #156
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Waypoint

Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBrett
I've been silently following this thread with some interest as I have chartered 'Waypoint' December 10th in the BVI. The theory of diesel electric propulsion for sailboats is sound, and some type of hybrid electric drive is the likely evolutionary path of most vehicles. The question is, will effective application be here in five years, 25 years, or 55 years? Lagoon is banking that it is here today. I'd be happy to report back on my experiences on Waypoint. Are there any burning questions from board members that I can answer while I'm there? I have a background in naval engineering.

Brett
Thanks for the offer Brett, I would appreciate a report on how Waypoint sails and how she feels.

It was reading about Waypoint's hybrid propulsion that led me to the 420.

Is it chance that led you to charter Waypoint or did you choose her because of the technology?

Thanks

Chris
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Old 27-11-2006, 14:07   #157
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Chris,

Chance brought me to Waypoint. I booked her a couple of weeks ago as a last minute special. I'm not sure if she was available due to her propulsion system, her 3 vs 4 stateroom layout, or just plain luck. I admit to being a little skeptical about her electric wheel system, but I am intrigued and I look forward to the experience.

Brett
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Old 27-11-2006, 16:08   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBrett
I've been silently following this thread with some interest as I have chartered 'Waypoint' December 10th in the BVI. The theory of diesel electric propulsion for sailboats is sound, and some type of hybrid electric drive is the likely evolutionary path of most vehicles. The question is, will effective application be here in five years, 25 years, or 55 years? Lagoon is banking that it is here today. I'd be happy to report back on my experiences on Waypoint. Are there any burning questions from board members that I can answer while I'm there? I have a background in naval engineering.

Brett
Greetings Brett,

Thanks for your offer.

I would be interested in the regeneration aspect and the running of the motors on battery alone. The L420 does a little over 7 Kts using diesel electric and as this part is old technology, the key for success of this boat, I think, will be the regeneration and running on storage.
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Old 27-11-2006, 18:08   #159
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1st Published Test of 420

In Issue #91 of Multihulls World
http://www.multihulls-world.com/us/index.php

Costs 5 euros for the test, or 5 euros for the entire issue. Obviously, take the whole issue. Since it is copyrighted, I won't/can't cut and paste the whole thing, but here are a few snippets:

"The 420 marks the end of the long, slim hulls, demanding aerodynamics, narrow cabin roofs, spartan living conditins, power and speed, and welcomes in comfort, ease of manoeuvring, and above all fabulous living spaces."

"The result is the most liveable 42-footer in the market segment, offering accomodation worthy of a 50 or even a 55-footer!"

"The layout of the running rigging has been the subject of a thorough ergonomic study, reduction of friction has been taken very seriously (ball bearing blocks everywhere) and the size of the jammers and the fittings is completely satisfactory."

"The gennaker...is essential, because it restores the 420's performance in light to moderate conditions."

"...the absence of smoke and noise is a source of amazement. The power and manoeuvrability are two others; the progressive nature of the propulsion and the torque are far superior to that of a classic gearbox!"

"Response (under power) was crisp and the reactions, immediate....Once out of the port, I accelerated hard: here again I was very surprised: the response was immediate and the boat felt very lively!"

"in 15 knots of wind from abeam. The 420 accelerated cleanly until the speed was hovering between 7 and 8 knots."

"downwind...reach after reach at 4 knots, with 9 knots of wind, in remarkable comfort, sailing smoothly through the waves with an almost total absence of pitching."

(in speed tests) "At 100% power, we noted almost 8/5 knots on a flat sea."

There is much more, but in all fairness to the folks at Multihulls World, pay the 5 euros and get it.

ID
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Old 01-12-2006, 21:36   #160
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I was able to make a reservation to sail on the 420 at the Cat Co. Demo Days in Fort Lauderdale on Dec. 9th, will let all you know how things go, or if we sail at all. I looked on my GPS maps and the marina the boat is located at is 3.5 miles from the ocean up the ICWW and the Dania Canel, so at least we will see how far it will motor under battery power only, although this will be under an hour of motoring one way.

Quiet Riot
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Old 02-12-2006, 05:36   #161
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We were torn about this. Had it been this weekend we would have gone. Next weekend is too difficult. If there's another in Jan I may go for it.

Very much looking forward to your report. See if you can encourage them to take her out to the gulf stream, particularly if it's going to be choppy out there. I'd like to know how she handles this.

Steve
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Old 02-12-2006, 09:27   #162
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Quiet Riot --

Based on what others have experienced and the write up in Multihulls World, I have several questions/items I would like to see covered (unfortunately, I can't get to this, either):

1. After verifying that the propulsion banks are fully charged, how long under motoring until the genset kicks in? What was the motoring, manouvering, cruising speed, sea/wind state, etc.?
2. Under sail, how close will she sail to the wind? Note conditions, sea state, etc.
3. When tacking, is it necessary to backwind the headsail? Does she stall out going through the eye of the wind?
4. Regeneration: does it work, at all? Once sailing and the motors are off, how much regeneration is occuring, at what sailing speed?
5. Where are the motor controllers located? Are they vulnerable to salt water ingress? If so, is it possible to protect them better?

Thanks!

ID
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Old 07-12-2006, 17:37   #163
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For those of you hungry for L420 news, there is an article on the L420 in the latest edition of Lats&Atts. Not really any new information - the usual non-inflamatory mag review.
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Old 10-12-2006, 04:34   #164
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Multihulls World Test Report

I received the paper copy of the Multihulls World test report today. Like Intentional Drifter I found it left me with more questions than it answered. It hinted that performance had been sacrificed for space and comfort and perhaps we cannot expect the same levels of performance as for previous Lagoons, particularly at low wind speeds.

In the copy I received the Conclusion was in French. Anyone got a translation?
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Old 10-12-2006, 08:48   #165
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I contacted Multihulls World regarding the translation problem in the electronic version and they quickly sent me a corrected one. Sorry to hear that they were unable to catch it before it went to the paper press. Anyway, here is the English version of the Conclusions:

Are you looking for a boat Ďto live
withí? Easy to sail as a family crew
and very comfortable? And which in
addition is more economical with
fossil resources? Then the 420 will
really live up to your expectations.

The 420ís bias is clear: it offers
space, conviviality and privacy on an
easy and consensual nautical leisure
platform. The order book confirms
the conceptís coherence.

The effectiveness of the hybrid propulsion
is real; the proof is there on
a boat which consumes a lot of
energy (electric winches, microwave
ovens, 4 fridges, reversible airconditioningÖ).
And what is more, this propulsion system is pleasant to
use and easy to manage. Lagoonís
challenge has already been won. All
the builders are now working on this
type of propulsion, which will inevitably
be that of the future.
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