420: Lagoon 420 or 440 ?

[M&M]

Hi, since we want to sail from Europe to USA and afterwards from USA to Australia/Asia (Thailand) we are very much in doubt which boat would be the best for us. We are a tall dutch couple (1.78m & 1.85 m) so we need a little space.
We have decided that we want to go sailing on a Lagoon but now we are very much doubting about the 420 or the 440. The 440 seems to be winner in lots of situations but is more expensive and we have our doubts about the flybridge. We are sailing the vessel mostly with the two of us. One downstairs and one upstairs??? And what about very bad weather? Is it safe than on the flybridge?

On the other hand the 440 seems to be a much better sailor compared to the 420 (which we read about as being very spacious but quite slow?)
Since we want to become liveaboards ánd sailing around the world, we would be very gratefull for your comment / advice....

Thanks in advance,
M&M

[Jeannius]

We've just gone around the world in company with a 440. The owners say the flybridge is fine but ask the crew who were with them and you get a different story. The crew admit to being pretty uncomfortable and at times scared when the going got tough.

The 420 is not too bad a performer as out and out crusing cats go. Performance doesn't matter much, comfort and safety are more important to me.

[M&M]

Thanks Jeannius, for your quick reaction.
I can indeed imagine that you "feel more safe" steering lower in the 420.

Maarten

[impi]

We own a 440 and have been through a severe storm off Cape Point with friends who were in serious trouble in another cat. Without trying to sell you on the 440, I must share with you the fact that we absolutely love the flybridge and it is incredible how nice that extra space 'away from the rest of the boat is'.
The 440 is exceptionally stable in rough weather and is the cat of our choice for cruising around the world. We have owned other cats and the 440 was our choice after much research.
Our only disappointment has been the backup from lagoon with issues which should have been sorted out under warranty - they want nothing to do with it and so we have had to sort these out ourselves.
Sailing - she is an absolute dream!

[dirkdig]

We totally agree on the 440, the flybridge is the best in any conditions.its also the favorite spot when sailing with guests onboard seating 5 across with the best views.
We have been through 55 knots sitting up there is was good havings the allround view.
When night sailing we spend nearly all the time inside just going out to make adjustments,right now we are sailing along in bass strait at the bottom of australia watching tv doing 9 knots, loving it.

Top boat and its true just be prepared to write off Lagoon as a supplier who backs you, once the cheque has cleared dont bother, they wont!

[Gordon]

Hi M & M have you been on board the FP Orana 44, plenty of headroom throughout. Well capable of blue water passage.

Regards Gordon.

[M&M]

@ Gordon, thanks for your suggestion but too expensive for us...... since she is quite new on the market.

@ Dirkdig & Impi; thanks as well; but what about sailing this boat with two persons?
Is it easy to stay in touch with eachother when one is 'upstairs' and one is downstairs? And what about setting the sails? Do you have to go up a lot for changing the trimming of the sails? Somehow it feels as if two persons are so far apart, with one on the flybridge or am I wrong?
@ Dirkdig": You write about sailing in 55 knots of wind: Was your course downwind?? But how does she perform to the wind (slamming & stability) Does she make you feel safe?

Thank your very much for helping us making our choise!!
Marjolein

[impi]

Hi M&M
We sail the 440 with just the 2 of us.
I'm not sure if the one you are looking at has the raymarine smart controller, but I use that to helm the 440 from inside, or from anywhere else on the vessel for that matter. It is basically remote control (looks like a cell phone) and displays all relevant information such a wind, Cog etc. etc. It is super responsive too.
When Ana and I sailed through the storm off Cape Point, we got to experience severe weather from all sides as we had a SE wind and with rounding the point had wind from all quarters. What really impressed us was whilst we 'fell' down the wave faces and feared the nose digging into the back of the wave ahead of it, we realised there was no danger of that happening as the bow would literally pop up as the bows dropped in at a certain depth. Our friends were not as lucky on their cat and were in serious trouble with conditions so dire that it was impossible for us to help them. When we discussed this with various people who know the lagoon, they pointed out that the lagoons big gullwing (pontoon between the hulls starting just ahead of the trampoline) creates floatation at a certain depth of water penetration and that is what pops the nose up out of the water. It REALLY is phenomenal in sailing safety and stability of the vessel.
In Cape Town we regularly have strong wind and sailors are always surprised at how well the 440 performs in these conditions with just the 2 of us.
I am not in the business of selling 440's but can honestly say that 90% of the time we sail, if friends join us they all end up on the flybridge and absolutely love being up there - every time!!!
We have an owners version which makes for huge spacious living in the owners cabin and a very nice bathroom / shower.
Our greatest disappointment was the small toilet / showers of the guest cabins - which I would imagine could have the same layout in the charter versions (4 cabin version). I guess it all comes down to what's important to you.
We have moved onboard full time - that's pushing it for a country boy like me who has always owned a farm in Stellenbosch with a nice big house - but I must say I LOVE living onboard and have now rented the farm out to other land lobers.
We intend this to be home for the next many years and embark in our world tour hopefully in June or July this year. We went for a cat 2 of us can easily handle, is comfortable, incredibly stable and safe.
..... at the end of the day, you need to determine what's important to you guys and be happy out there. My only advice would be that you don't write off the bridge because it is truly fantastic to have.

All the best!

Brent

[Grey Perna]

Hello M&M,

I have not sailed the L440 but own a '07 L420 owners version (3/3) that happens to be for sale. My wife and I single hand her often and love that the cooking station and helm station almost face each other and are only a few feet away from each other. She is very spacious and has been a very good sailing vessel as well, but is ready now for new owners.

She is sitting in the Abacos, Bahamas as part of a small chater fleet,close by to our home in Florida and in great sailing waters. I suppose a great way to "test" this model would be to charter her for a week or two, which may just help you determine if the 420 is a good fit for you.

If you are interested to hear more let me know, best wishes!

Grey Perna

[capcook]

I don't currently own a vessel so take this for what it is worth, but I have chartered a Trawler that had a fly bridge and it was not very social. The wife and Ks were mostly down on the deck or in the cabin while I had to keep a look out up on top (shallow water)... I also chartered an Orana and really enjoyed that vessel. I don't think there will be much cost difference between a used Orana and a Lagoon 440... My preference is the Orana then the 420 then the 440... I do like the 420... the one at the Miami show was really nice...

Cheers

[dirkdig]

Hi,

We have just done a 4 day trip and i would have spent a total of 2 hours on the flybridge trimming and setting, nearly all navigation i do is from inside and you can look up from the nav station ans see the sails through the hatch above the seat.
For the 2 of us i would not want any bigger than a 440 which is a large volume boat.
The bows as mentioned do not nosedive as last year we rounded Wilsons prom in Victoria and we had a tailwind of 35+ knots with a current running straight into us and the waves 3-5 meters standing up as the swell and wind was opposing the current, the boat would stand up and surf down the waves get to the bottom and lift up every time no worries.
The nacelle under the bridgedeck also helps this as well as dispersing waves around the inside of the hulls should a wave come up to slap,
The clearance is great with slapping only really happeneing in 25+ knots if motoring head on into it and then if you go 10-15 deg away it will no longer happen.

As far as the flybridge goes, the only people that have an issue is those who dont have one!

Thanks Dirk

[Multitalent]

"As far as the flybridge goes, the only people that have an issue is those who dont have one!"
True ! and also the points about watchkeeping from the inside station. There is a video on Youtube shot from the bridge of a 440 in 60 kts...the guys are pretty calm and happy. Remember very little time on your circumnavigation will be actual steering. 90% of time anchored and 95% of sailing will be Autopilot. So in the few times where you need to be on the bridge ( for lookout, or steering duty) you can have those small headsets to communicate with your partner, also extremely useful when anchoring. On a 440 or the 450 or 500 with only two crew we prefer to sleep in the saloon in bad weather so as to be easier to call for backup....but then the off watch is likely to be glued to the Radar then anyway. Then again a slowpoke 421 Won the ARC last year mostly due to having one of those German Parasail Spinnakers, which are so stable that they could fly it much more than average spin.
Speed is very much affected by the individuals talent and his equipment/sails.

[M&M]

Originally Posted by Grey Perna

Hello M&M,

I have not sailed the L440 but own a '07 L420 owners version (3/3) that happens to be for sale. My wife and I single hand her often and love that the cooking station and helm station almost face each other and are only a few feet away from each other. She is very spacious and has been a very good sailing vessel as well, but is ready now for new owners.

She is sitting in the Abacos, Bahamas as part of a small chater fleet,close by to our home in Florida and in great sailing waters. I suppose a great way to "test" this model would be to charter her for a week or two, which may just help you determine if the 420 is a good fit for you.

If you are interested to hear more let me know, best wishes!

Grey Perna

Hello Grey,
Thanks for your info. Do you have more infrmation on the 420? Photos, listing, price (sale and charter)?
You can send this to wamelenATwxs.nl
Thanks in advance.
Best regards,
Maarten

[careka]

There was a new 421 heading for Australia when we took of from Les Sables d-olonnes. and a 450 going to Mosambik of all places.
They where both sailing down cost to Brasil and then over to South Africa, and on.

[Aluna]

We were on the brink of buying a 440 because of the flybridge and now I am glad we didn't. The flybridge is great if there is a lot of people to sail the boat. If you are only two then one has to sit up there all alone and when it rains and it is cold it is no fun being exposed. Lagoons are largely sold as charter boats - big (lots of windage) spacious (lots of paying guests) and HEAVY.

With a cat the more you pay the less you get - that is weight. You pay for carbon fibres and they cost but they keep the weight down which is what counts on a cat. The lighter the better.

We chose the Orana 44. It is in fact a similar size to the 440 but much lighter and a hell of of a lot easier to sail. They are not more expensive. From the years of researching they are also the best value for money than any other cat (new) currently on the market.