420: Lagoon 420 or 440 ?

[impi]

Originally Posted by Steve_C

Congrats on your 440, it looks like you have it set up very well. Please keep us informed of your impressions on the crossing. It wouldn't hurt if you took lots of pictures.... Best of luck on your voyage.

thank you Steve

As mentioned we are in Fortaleza - took 21-22 days to cross the atlantic from Cape Town - currently in Marina park marina - very nice but the fee is 1 USD per ft per day ... Internet wify is 20 real per day (exch is 1USD for 1.40 real when in town one gets 1.82 real). visited CUMBUCO yesterday ... What a blast ... We had such good fun !

We have not yet posted photo's due to getting my Internet up and running but will do soon.

You can check out our blog, which someone has been updating on the odd occasion ... So not all is posted yet but mainly consist of letters we wrote my mother every day as we crossed by satellite comms (text only as you will appreciate it is expensive) ...

http://cat-impi.blogspot.com

Anyway, in a nut shell ... I learned a lot ... My view of things 'sailing' probably changed quite a bit too ... I am very happy we put the effort and energy into the power aspect of Impi ... It made the trip as pleasurable as can be ... Two Genoa's sailed goose wing worked exceptionally well when the winds became too strong for our kite (strangely enough when removing the kite and flying two Genoa's, the speed reduction was always only within a 1 knot variation ... But so much more controlled and comfortable.

The seas ... We apparently were not so lucky ... We were in big seas a lot of the way ... But then we did sail a lot further south than usual ...

Engine hours ... Total - 52.1 hrs
Port side 26hrs total
Stbd side 26.1

Generator hrs: 69 (I know - we lived it up)

Watermakers hrs: 119 hrs. (8211 liters) ... Plenty showers and washing machine

Diesel: have not yet filled the tanks again, but here is what we know ... Both tanks full when we left 700 liters total.
Along the way I wanted to test my diesel suction system in heavy seas - added another 150 liters into the tanks.

Arrived with plenty of diesel still in the tanks, so my guess is that the vessel full of diesel would have been enough ... Perhaps a few hundred spare incase the main lot get's contaminated or lost for some reason.

Solar panels ... What a charm ... A regular 30-40 amps per hour for most of the day .... I should have put more thought into the tilting mechanism as the limited tilt I had made a huge difference early in the mornings ... I also believe I could have got more out of them if they were mounted a little higher (but we didn't want to sacrifice our view).

Dingy - mounted on our davits with 30hp motor attached. We used cargo straps with rachets to secure ... Titled the motor up so the engine was against the top of one davit (with foam in-between of course), the bottom of the motor (prop side) rachet strapped back to the vessel ... Took many waves from behind ... The dingy was SOLID ... Must admit this was the one thing I was concerned about when we left ... It really was NO problem!

Interestingly, the further north we got, the hotter the battery bank temperatures (in Cape Town 21 degrees and further north now at 30 degrees) ... I am not an electrician, but noticed the battery bank charging kicked out of bulk charge mode into absorption mode a lot quicker .... That was disappointing for me as my system really kicks a good bulk charge into the house banks all around so would like to have had a longer period in the bulk charge mode. That will teach us guys in colder climates to learn from the others ....

Yeah ... So I hope that gives an honest perspective of an Atlantic crossing from Cape Town, South Africa to Fortaleza, Brazil

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by impi

thank you Steve

As mentioned we are in Fortaleza - took 21-22 days to cross the atlantic from Cape Town - currently in Marina park marina - very nice but the fee is 1 USD per ft per day ... Internet wify is 20 real per day (exch is 1USD for 1.40 real when in town one gets 1.82 real). visited CUMBUCO yesterday ... What a blast ... We had such good fun !

We have not yet posted photo's due to getting my Internet up and running but will do soon.

You can check out our blog, which someone has been updating on the odd occasion ... So not all is posted yet but mainly consist of letters we wrote my mother every day as we crossed by satellite comms (text only as you will appreciate it is expensive) ...

Impi

Anyway, in a nut shell ... I learned a lot ... My view of things 'sailing' probably changed quite a bit too ... I am very happy we put the effort and energy into the power aspect of Impi ... It made the trip as pleasurable as can be ... Two Genoa's sailed goose wing worked exceptionally well when the winds became too strong for our kite (strangely enough when removing the kite and flying two Genoa's, the speed reduction was always only within a 1 knot variation ... But so much more controlled and comfortable.

The seas ... We apparently were not so lucky ... We were in big seas a lot of the way ... But then we did sail a lot further south than usual ...

Engine hours ... Total - 52.1 hrs
Port side 26hrs total
Stbd side 26.1

Generator hrs: 69 (I know - we lived it up)

Watermakers hrs: 119 hrs. (8211 liters) ... Plenty showers and washing machine

Diesel: have not yet filled the tanks again, but here is what we know ... Both tanks full when we left 700 liters total.
Along the way I wanted to test my diesel suction system in heavy seas - added another 150 liters into the tanks.

Arrived with plenty of diesel still in the tanks, so my guess is that the vessel full of diesel would have been enough ... Perhaps a few hundred spare incase the main lot get's contaminated or lost for some reason.

Solar panels ... What a charm ... A regular 30-40 amps per hour for most of the day .... I should have put more thought into the tilting mechanism as the limited tilt I had made a huge difference early in the mornings ... I also believe I could have got more out of them if they were mounted a little higher (but we didn't want to sacrifice our view).

Dingy - mounted on our davits with 30hp motor attached. We used cargo straps with rachets to secure ... Titled the motor up so the engine was against the top of one davit (with foam in-between of course), the bottom of the motor (prop side) rachet strapped back to the vessel ... Took many waves from behind ... The dingy was SOLID ... Must admit this was the one thing I was concerned about when we left ... It really was NO problem!

Interestingly, the further north we got, the hotter the battery bank temperatures (in Cape Town 21 degrees and further north now at 30 degrees) ... I am not an electrician, but noticed the battery bank charging kicked out of bulk charge mode into absorption mode a lot quicker .... That was disappointing for me as my system really kicks a good bulk charge into the house banks all around so would like to have had a longer period in the bulk charge mode. That will teach us guys in colder climates to learn from the others ....

Yeah ... So I hope that gives an honest perspective of an Atlantic crossing from Cape Town, South Africa to Fortaleza, Brazil

Congratulations, well planned happy to hear you are all safe. Marina fees sound a bit familiar to Australia, interesting about your comments re: taking down the Spinnaker only lost you a knot, i bet the rig stress went down big heaps, maybe some food for thought there...... Your adventure has begun well and truly!!! Cheers Frank

[Lagoon4us]

'I meant to ask, after sailing Impi' across the Atlantic what are your thoughts on the upper helm station? Cheers Frank

[impi]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

'I meant to ask, after sailing Impi' across the Atlantic what are your thoughts on the upper helm station? Cheers Frank

Hi Frank ... Just typed a response and promptly erased it again ... Think the crossing stumped my brain a bit.

To answer honestly ... I did not spend as much time up there as I initially claimed I would on a crossing ... Spent most of my time inside.
Having said that, there was never a moment I felt I had to be up there ... And it was nice to know I could be up there if I wanted to...The Lagoon 440 sails with a feeling of total control and being at ease even in rough conditions. I could not be without my Raymarine smart controller ....had I not had one, you would be getting a different answer from me.
As mentioned before, we had a rough weather crossing (wind and sea), were in a lightening storm for 6 hours (was terrified ... Not used to those where bolts are striking down to sea level), lost gps and plotter functions intermittently ....
We had a night where we were doing 19 knts (unintentionally) with only the Genoa's up in a pot holed sea .... The boat is super fast despite us being totally overloaded ....rigged as a cruising cat, not a racing machine...Never felt once that I needed to rush up to the bridge ... The Lagoon 440 simply does not nose dive and is very stable in all conditions.
There were times I wished my autopilot was more responsive to a quicker correction ...
We had some stunning days and nights in between ... The bridge was an awesome place to be in those moments ... One felt free and being up there just has a sense of 'being in a different place for a while' .... Personally, I will never be without a bridge again!

On a different level all together ... On a crossing such as the one we just did across the south Atlantic ... One mentally almost needs a 'get away spot'. The 440 really had that for us ... Many spots to get away to ... And the bridge was certainly one where you could recline on the long seats and read a book ... Feel above the boat, not in the boat so to speak ... Mentally, it was a 'special place' for us!

Another really, really nice feature on the 440 on this crossing was the split level deck. One has a wide deck down the sides, narrowing to a lower deck level also running along the length of the boat. I cannot tell you enough how fantastic this feature proved to be ... I had never given it a thought before. We enjoyed sailing with our hatches open, even in heavier seas ... It refreshed the boat and felt good... But the sea does tend to lap up and wash onto the decks now and again. With the split level deck, the sea would roll up gently onto the deck ... Had it been a flat deck the water would rush straight down the hatch ... But to our surprise the shape of the 'split' in deck level carried the water down the length of the boat, keeping it on the lower level pouring the water out into the sea again. The upper level stayed dry and water never got to pour down the hatch. Of course we would close the hatches if we noticed water running along the lower deck level ... To be safe. It was a kind of gentle warning that the sea was starting to get to a point where hatches should be shut ... A great, great feature ... The engineering skill in design had me bewildered because it seemed dimensionally proportioned and shaped to cope so efficiently with a lot of water coming up onto the deck ...

Biggest disappointment - the 440 interior cabins squeaked ... A lot ... I found that unacceptable and have started to remove panel for panel and rubberize behind each. Vision catamarans do not have one squeak at sea because the guys put in enough effort to place rubber between all furniture joints.... Lagoon lacks in this department.

[Lagoon4us]

We are understanding your point of the decks, isn't it funny to follow the thread of thought the particular designer had to give it the effect?
And there you are mid-Sth Atlantic and it all fits!!!! Take some piccies of how you are treating the squeek problem, are you sure there are no CapeTown rodents aboard? LOL.

Wonder if any other owners have had similar problems with movement, i know when we boarded Pearl for the first time Viv commented the floor boards needed Talcum!!!!

I wonder if the 'Delay' can be adjusted in the Autopilot to make it more sensitive but more power consuming???

So sails were trimmed then you sat aft and in main cabin doing an active watch that never required you to stay put? My kind of sailing, winds must have been reasonably constant??

Great for such a trip to be a success for you, now the fun begins... Ty for response see you next year!!!!!

[dirkdig]

The auto pilot has 3 response settings, on the most active setting it can be working flat out making adjustments.
We have had our 440 surf down some big waves with a 35 knot tail wind and the hulls always pop up and it never seems to be an issue.
The big volume in the hulls forward works great doing this and provides a good saftey feature let alone alows the boat to pick up speed quicker.
Often i lie across the seat on the fly with a pillow it is just heaven as you have 360 deg unobstructed views, no confinement there.
Would never have a boat with out a flybridge after having one

[impi]

Originally Posted by dirkdig

The auto pilot has 3 response settings, on the most active setting it can be working flat out making adjustments.
We have had our 440 surf down some big waves with a 35 knot tail wind and the hulls always pop up and it never seems to be an issue.
The big volume in the hulls forward works great doing this and provides a good saftey feature let alone alows the boat to pick up speed quicker.
Often i lie across the seat on the fly with a pillow it is just heaven as you have 360 deg unobstructed views, no confinement there.
Would never have a boat with out a flybridge after having one

Sorry Dirk,

Somehow this reply escaped my reading ....
I did try the three different response settings on my autopilot, and granted the pilot works fair enough ... Call me fussy ... But I would have liked to see less yaw coming across the Atlantic ... When we were sailing on the edge of the wind with both Genoa's up in bumpy seas, the response of the autopilot was just not quick enough to keep the second genoa from closing into the other. Had there been less yawing (hope I am using the right word here) on the vessel, it would have made a considerable difference to our sailing leisure ...
I believe the next step up would be the same they use on racing vessels ... That will be the install on my next boat ...
Flybridge .... Awesome place to be ... Spent less time than I always claimed I would up there on a crossing, but it really is not something I will ever be without on a cat again ...

[dirkdig]

Totally agree with getting the auto pilot more reactive, may need a bigger unit or something, i imagine we could install one on the starboard side as a backup or either preferred system if it works quicker.
I was told my a very experienced multihull expert that a back up system is critical for nearly all things.
Imagine being 3 days into a 1-2 week trip and have the autopilot stop, no thank you.

[Lagoon4us]

Agree there mounting another on opposite hull is good thinking.

[impi]

Originally Posted by dirkdig

Totally agree with getting the auto pilot more reactive, may need a bigger unit or something, i imagine we could install one on the starboard side as a backup or either preferred system if it works quicker.
I was told my a very experienced multihull expert that a back up system is critical for nearly all things.
Imagine being 3 days into a 1-2 week trip and have the autopilot stop, no thank you.

A friend of mine just got hit by lightening having left Fortaleza for Tortola .... Lost his auto pilot .... Had to steer by hand the rest of the way .... Says it was a nightmare!!
If one installs another on the opposite side, do they work together Ie. Reduce yaw?

[Lagoon4us]

Wow unfortunate! No the would feverishly work against each other unless controlled from the same sensors. I'll take note of your point in the way of carrying spares i would hate to have to hand steer with just Viv and i on board and as you say it can happen at the beginning rather than the end of the trip...Murphy at play!

[capcook]

Originally Posted by impi

A friend of mine just got hit by lightening having left Fortaleza for Tortola .... Lost his auto pilot .... Had to steer by hand the rest of the way .... Says it was a nightmare!!
If one installs another on the opposite side, do they work together Ie. Reduce yaw?

I wonder if the lightening would have taken out the spare too... or could you install a spare and not have it pluged in and somehow protect it from a strike...

Feeling safe and welcome in Brazil ?

Cheers

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by capcook

I wonder if the lightening would have taken out the spare too... or could you install a spare and not have it pluged in and somehow protect it from a strike...

Feeling safe and welcome in Brazil ?

Cheers

I guess if you have a direct strike you are probably screwed as in main wiring melted.

If a near miss maybe all things on-board with delicate components are then un-servicable?

I'm thinking ill just carry a spare unit probably by a second hand exactly same model that's been checked and store below away from metal.

I'm going to start a thread and ask for anyone with ACTUAL experience to comment.

Cheers Frank

[impi]

Originally Posted by capcook

I wonder if the lightening would have taken out the spare too... or could you install a spare and not have it pluged in and somehow protect it from a strike...

Feeling safe and welcome in Brazil ?

Cheers

Apparently there was quite a bit of work required to resolve the problem once they got to shore ... Not sure if they could've plugged in another unit?

Brazil ... These people are the friendliest I have met ... Feel very safe and welcome ... Don't want to leave, but I am thinking of heading out to drop the hook at Jericoacua ... They say it's beautiful

[downunder]

Originally Posted by impi

Apparently there was quite a bit of work required to resolve the problem once they got to shore ... Not sure if they could've plugged in another unit?

Brazil ... These people are the friendliest I have met ... Feel very safe and welcome ... Don't want to leave, but I am thinking of heading out to drop the hook at Jericoacua ... They say it's beautiful

Hard to beat the Brazilian meat restaurants and caprihinas