42: Lagoon 42 loses mast

[jugga]

Originally Posted by Library70

I don't see how the parasailor puts upward pressure on the rigging. The halyard angles down to the head of the sail. That would be contrary to the "can't push a rope" theory.?

I agree. Most upward pressure I see while flying my Parasailor is on the bows, the guys are lifting the bows upwards which makes for a sensational surfing experience while going DDW. I would even say the wind makes a downward motion in the triangular head of the Parasail ...

[BobFord]

Hey Belize, Many thanks for the info. Cheers, Bob

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by BobFord

Hey Belize, Many thanks for the info. Cheers, Bob

De nada

[Octopus]

I suspect human error.

Five years ago, we had some mast work done in Portimao boatyard, Portugal, and arrived from the UK the day after the boat was relaunched. We were on a tight schedule to sail to Gibraltar before flying back to the UK, so we very nearly set sail without checking the rigging. Fortunately, I did check and, to my horror, found the rigging screws were only hand tight.

I gave the rigger hell on the phone and he gave me a mouthful right back. Of course he had tensioned the expletive deleted rigging and hung up. He was round the next morning full of apologies, he had talked to one of his team and between them they had pieced together how they had managed to completely forget to tension the rigging on my boat. Apparently the light was going and they had connected the rigging and then moved on to another urgent job before it got dark. The next morning, despite being a team of four, they had all forgotten the state they had left my boat.

In 2007 there was a spate of three 420s that lost their mast, two were in a yard and one was sailing in benign conditions. I believe that human error was to blame in all cases. The rigging screws that Lagoon use give no visual clue as to how much thread is engaged and the rigidity of the stays give no 'feel' for how much tension they are under.


Chris

[SV DestinyAscen]

Video makes it clear owner has a habit of flying the parasailor only without the main - someone can correct me but I recall certain cat manufacturers precisely recommending against such practices because of a lack of backstays. I'd bet a drink the mainsail was down, mainsheet and topping lift loose.

Rig might have just been a little loose without being retensioned after expected stretch - voila rig gets lifted forward and comes down.

Prob a good thing the mast isn't pinned - pins won't save the rig from coming down and will definitely breach the hull and give you problems in rough seas.

[BlueBuddha]

Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen

Video makes it clear owner has a habit of flying the parasailor only without the main - someone can correct me but I recall certain cat manufacturers precisely recommending against such practices because of a lack of backstays. I'd bet a drink the mainsail was down, mainsheet and topping lift loose.



Rig might have just been a little loose without being retensioned after expected stretch - voila rig gets lifted forward and comes down.



Prob a good thing the mast isn't pinned - pins won't save the rig from coming down and will definitely breach the hull and give you problems in rough seas.

Yup. You are supposed to use the main to stabilize the rig when flying the kite- although many do not. He was doing so in 20+ knots.

Tour theory is also where I put my money. It is unclear whether he retensioned the rig as required give this was a new boat. Also he has not stated whether he had conducted any checks of the rig as most would. If the rig was loose and he was flying that kite in 25kts with higher gusts the mast would come down.

[Lagoon42]

Hello guys its my boat this Lagoon 42 with l'oses mast!!

[BlueBuddha]

Originally Posted by Lagoon42

Hello guys its my boat this Lagoon 42 with l'oses mast!!

Welcome. We are primarily trying to understand what happened so that we learn what we can do to avoid a similar event. You probably may not be able to say much as you may be dealing with insurance. But feel free to add more information about what you think may have happened. For example, after the mast came down did you inspect all the stays to confirm none of them broke? If all were intact then it is likely the shrouds were extremely loose. Have you been in touch with the rigger who did the re-tensioning to get a the new whether they noted greater than usual slack? By this I do not mean the original rigger but the person who conducted the post shakedown inspection and retuning which should be done after the first massages.

[Lagoon42]

Originally Posted by BlueBuddha

He has a video of him flying a para-sailor. I asked him if by any chance he was flying the kite when the mast came off but he has not responded.

Maybe he was trying to recreate the Lagoon 42 promo video, in which they were flying a shoot in 23knots of wind and doing 16nknts of speed.

No we are not under parasailor !!!!only with the mainsail one reef, and genoa

[BlueBuddha]

Originally Posted by Lagoon42

No we are not under parasailor !!!!only with the mainsail one reef, and genoa

If you were not flying the parasailor then either a stay failed (broke) or the stays were extremely loose. Were they re-tensioned after the first passages?

[Lagoon42]

Originally Posted by Octopus

I suspect human error.

Five years ago, we had some mast work done in Portimao boatyard, Portugal, and arrived from the UK the day after the boat was relaunched. We were on a tight schedule to sail to Gibraltar before flying back to the UK, so we very nearly set sail without checking the rigging. Fortunately, I did check and, to my horror, found the rigging screws were only hand tight.

I gave the rigger hell on the phone and he gave me a mouthful right back. Of course he had tensioned the expletive deleted rigging and hung up. He was round the next morning full of apologies, he had talked to one of his team and between them they had pieced together how they had managed to completely forget to tension the rigging on my boat. Apparently the light was going and they had connected the rigging and then moved on to another urgent job before it got dark. The next morning, despite being a team of four, they had all forgotten the state they had left my boat.

In 2007 there was a spate of three 420s that lost their mast, two were in a yard and one was sailing in benign conditions. I believe that human error was to blame in all cases. The rigging screws that Lagoon use give no visual clue as to how much thread is engaged and the rigidity of the stays give no 'feel' for how much tension they are under.


Chris

you're right that's exactly it
And we are right now in Portimao

[Lagoon42]

Originally Posted by BlueBuddha

Yup. You are supposed to use the main to stabilize the rig when flying the kite- although many do not. He was doing so in 20+ knots.

Tour theory is also where I put my money. It is unclear whether he retensioned the rig as required give this was a new boat. Also he has not stated whether he had conducted any checks of the rig as most would. If the rig was loose and he was flying that kite in 25kts with higher gusts the mast would come down.

The boat made these technical checks a week before at the dealership of Lisbon
we asked him to control the tension !! he said it was ok

[Lagoon42]

It is a reply comment by à sailor in a other forum:

No one injured... Great news !
However, I've noticed the rigging is getting loose with sea condition over 2/3 meters high due to high excessive shaking of the rigging under load on the new models 39, 42, 52s I have been sailing recently. (shroud and stays must be monitor from close after each day).

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Lagoon42

It is a reply comment by à sailor in a other forum:

No one injured... Great news !
However, I've noticed the rigging is getting loose with sea condition over 2/3 meters high due to high excessive shaking of the rigging under load on the new models 39, 42, 52s I have been sailing recently. (shroud and stays must be monitor from close after each day).

does loose rig go away after rough sail, or is cumulative ie getting looser and looser with time ?

[Lagoon42]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

does loose rig go away after rough sail, or is cumulative ie getting looser and looser with time ?

En français car je ne connais pas le mot anglais je parlerais de "mise en résonance"