Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-04-2016, 01:08   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 810
Re: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

i have drilled 2 holes in locker. Got 1 hour of gentle flow of clean water.

Drilled 7mm hole and will expand. Have not noticed rot, except port side felt bit softer than starboard when drilling.


I shaped the hole to have angle towards outside so no standing water in hole soaking balsa.

See how this goes. Not perfect but sure, worth doing.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN1337.jpg
Views:	116
Size:	287.7 KB
ID:	123022  
__________________

__________________
arsenelupiga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2016, 01:40   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Boat: Fastback 43 catamaran
Posts: 163
Re: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

I have been shown that if you drill a hole through balsa core that it must be recessed (like with an allen key on a drill ) then filled with epoxy glue , then you can drill a hole and the balsa core will be sealed. I have seen where this has not been done and the balsa core goes soft and rots quite quickly!

Sent from my SM-T315T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

__________________
Sardean is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2016, 02:01   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 810
Re: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardean View Post
I have been shown that if you drill a hole through balsa core that it must be recessed (like with an allen key on a drill ) then filled with epoxy glue , then you can drill a hole and the balsa core will be sealed. I have seen where this has not been done and the balsa core goes soft and rots quite quickly!

Sent from my SM-T315T using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
hole size should be 10-12 mm I am thinking 12.

7 mm drill to get rid of water first. These 2 holes are not thru fiberglass and in mainly dry environment

Plan to wait till area dry, as water still coming out, and expand hole and use some sort of sealant - maybe sikaflex and cross fingers my first drill of boat will not start rot.
__________________
arsenelupiga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2016, 09:08   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 810
Re: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
hole size should be 10-12 mm I am thinking 12.

7 mm drill to get rid of water first. These 2 holes are not thru fiberglass and in mainly dry environment

Plan to wait till area dry, as water still coming out, and expand hole and use some sort of sealant - maybe sikaflex and cross fingers my first drill of boat will not start rot.
looking at it again i think will not try seal as this may cause rot. Non-perfect seal is worse than no seal, is my beginner thinking.

1. Lagoon instructions only say drill 10-12mm hole, no seal of any sort instructed. Lots of balsa in surrounding areas not protected, and is dry, so not that much moisture.
2. It is dry area and presence of water can be only momentarily and very rare, if at all.
3. It is not structural, so even if rot, is not an issue, and even if issues can be replaced.
4. water cannot stay and hole is able to dry. So i will make hole to lean to outside.
5. What matters is to protect structural balsa bulkhead, which is done by drilling holes.
6. Wet areas will not move up much due to gravity. So area under attack is then not big.

What other people think ?
__________________
arsenelupiga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2016, 03:09   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boat in Turkey, home - Israel
Boat: Lagoon 400 & Nacra 6.0 beach cat
Posts: 434
Re: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuskie View Post
You'll understand if I don't wish to discuss too much about warranty at this stage, as negotiations are (hopefully) proceeding.

My boat is hull #141, bought by me 2.5 years old. It was originally purchased in France and shipped to Australia. Rot appeared well inside the 5 year period. TMG were the Lagoon dealership in Australia at the time the Technical Bulletin was released. Is the water tank shelf and main bulkhead part of the hull? I think so, but opinions apparently differ. Are dealers who have not sold a boat obliged to undertake warranty repairs on boats of that brand? Who knows?, but it's not the first time that ducking and buck passing between Lagoon and their dealers has featured in this forum.

Thanks Monte. You have substantiated that, (a) water is pooling, unseen, in this area, and (b) dealers that have not actually sold the boat are willing or obliged to fix the problem, through Lagoon, as they are that brand's local representative.

In view of point (a), I would caution owners who look in the nacelle hatch area and decide that all is sound and dry to think again. My boat looked fine until the rot produced soft areas and evidence of fungus. I hope that the "Lagoon fix", actually works to prevent rot in this area. I'd strongly suggest that any Lagoon 400 owners undertake the drainage procedure, AND pay a competent surveyor to climb in there with a moisture meter. Then access the rear of the main bulkhead via the inspection hatches next to the Nav station and in the port forward cabin. If high moisture levels are detected in the timber get it replaced. If the boat is under 5 years old, knock on the dealer's door.
My hull is #121 (2011) just passed the 5 years from acceptance date.
Our dealer acknowledged the problem after my query that was made after I have learned of the issue here on CF.
It seems that he is ready to cover the expenses involved, although the boat is at present not on his immediate vicinity (he is located in Israel, the boat is in Cyprus).
I will be on the boat in few days week and shall check the suspected area with moisture meter (it seems dry to the eye but the meter may tell a different story).
I believe that water can get in through the hoses fittings if no longer tight and sea water can get inside through the hatch if the rubber seal is dry and started to disintegrate.
__________________
Mark, S/Y Bat-Yam
meirriba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2016, 11:42   #36
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Boat: L 400
Posts: 568
Re: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
looking at it again i think will not try seal as this may cause rot. Non-perfect seal is worse than no seal, is my beginner thinking.

1. Lagoon instructions only say drill 10-12mm hole, no seal of any sort instructed. Lots of balsa in surrounding areas not protected, and is dry, so not that much moisture.
2. It is dry area and presence of water can be only momentarily and very rare, if at all.
3. It is not structural, so even if rot, is not an issue, and even if issues can be replaced.
4. water cannot stay and hole is able to dry. So i will make hole to lean to outside.
5. What matters is to protect structural balsa bulkhead, which is done by drilling holes.
6. Wet areas will not move up much due to gravity. So area under attack is then not big.

What other people think ?
Bulkheads and shelving is NOT balsa, it is ply. If it was balsa and so poorly sealed it would have rotted in days, not years. I'm not sure which grade of ply; it should be a marine grade, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Exposed timber, in this case ply, should be sealed once dry. It takes a long time to dry out once wet. If rot has started, it will never dry out and should be cut out and new timber scarfed in to replace it. I favour Everdure or similar type epoxy.
__________________
tuskie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2016, 02:32   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 810
Re: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuskie View Post
Bulkheads and shelving is NOT balsa, it is ply. If it was balsa and so poorly sealed it would have rotted in days, not years. I'm not sure which grade of ply; it should be a marine grade, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Exposed timber, in this case ply, should be sealed once dry. It takes a long time to dry out once wet. If rot has started, it will never dry out and should be cut out and new timber scarfed in to replace it. I favour Everdure or similar type epoxy.
thanks. learned something new here
__________________
arsenelupiga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-04-2016, 11:04   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Valley of the Sun, Gilbert, AZ
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 49
Re: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

Quote:
Originally Posted by monte View Post
Craig, have a chat to Hubert, the local lagoon rep. net-boat@wanadoo.fr It will be a bit easier to do while the boat is hauled. Lagoon supply a kit but it's basically just two covers for the holes, probably just a few dollars from the chandler.
The water that drained was fresh and mostly clean so I assume it's rainwater coming in from deck joins and window seals that has no way to escape. We drilled the front locker hole right through the ply rather than removing the small ply panel forward of the water tanks.

Thanks Monte and thank all for the information.
Hubert is taking care of our boat this week. To bad it wasn't last week when we had it hauled out.

Let's meet for a beer or two when you get to St Anne.

Craig


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
AZ_Zoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2016, 11:49   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7
Re: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

I own a 2012 L400, which i love, having read this thread i contacted the dealer in Finland who i bought the boat from, as a demonstrator, he said he was aware of a minor recall and would send me the info, the delay he said was because i was doing a transatlantic L450F delivery, but it will now be on its way, we hope. I have just convinced my friend change to two hulls, and he is looking at a L400 in Turkey, 2010, extremely well looked after by all accounts, I mentioned to him to check this area, and to his amazement, the surveyor found soft wood, removed the water tanks and cut a whole in the bulkhead to find it FULL of water, with plywood starting to crack and look like delamination. i wont post the pictures, but VERY scary. I wil be checking my L400 tomorrow, and as under 5 yrs old will be looking to Lagoon to repair any defects due to the design fault. I just hope that Lagoon, as the worlds largest Cat manufacturer, upholds their commitment and arranges repairs for those owners that need them.
__________________
neil28163 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2016, 16:07   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 810
Re: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil28163 View Post
I own a 2012 L400, which i love, having read this thread i contacted the dealer in Finland who i bought the boat from, as a demonstrator, he said he was aware of a minor recall and would send me the info, the delay he said was because i was doing a transatlantic L450F delivery, but it will now be on its way, we hope. I have just convinced my friend change to two hulls, and he is looking at a L400 in Turkey, 2010, extremely well looked after by all accounts, I mentioned to him to check this area, and to his amazement, the surveyor found soft wood, removed the water tanks and cut a whole in the bulkhead to find it FULL of water, with plywood starting to crack and look like delamination. i wont post the pictures, but VERY scary. I wil be checking my L400 tomorrow, and as under 5 yrs old will be looking to Lagoon to repair any defects due to the design fault. I just hope that Lagoon, as the worlds largest Cat manufacturer, upholds their commitment and arranges repairs for those owners that need them.
why dont you post pictures? Would be fair, now that you described in words.
__________________
arsenelupiga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2016, 01:09   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7
Re: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

Can't find a way to upload them !
__________________
neil28163 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2016, 04:44   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: land in Sydney, this summer doing Greece and Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 400 S2
Posts: 57
pirate Re: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

I got the new parts for the drainage and a cheque from Vicsail in Sydney. I haven't fitted them yet. I thought it was a minor problem but reading the posts (60l of water for Monte) I now will attend to it a little more urgently.

Now to a related issue if I may. Salt water ingress from where the boarding ladder is mounted on the left transom. That area is certainly subject to salt water a lot of the time. I have read that the ladder mount goes through end grain balsa and that balsa is subject to rot. I believe the correct action is to clean out the balsa and substitute epoxy and filler. Then rebed the ladder with butyl tape.

I haven't done any of this yet. My question is have you done it? What did you find? I would be interested to know both ways - have you reattached it or not?

I am trying to work out my priorities.

Thanks
Brian
__________________
b_rodwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2016, 08:53   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Boat: L 400
Posts: 568
Re: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

In my prepurchase survey the moisture meter found high readings ( ie. Rot ) around the ladder mounts. I will do exactly as you recommend but wish to replace the ladder with a more sensible design that doesn't stick up a metre and get in the way. This may require different mount positions and sealing up old positions.

In the matter of prioritising jobs this is low, the nacelle/ bulkhead is high. Everyone on this forum who has drilled holes in a L400 nacelle has found damaging quantities of fresh water. Everyone who knows how and where, and has actually looked at the main bulkhead in the vicinity of the lower nacelle has found evidence of rot.

Lagoon's "fix" is equivalent to giving asprin to someone with a brain tumor! Inadequate.
__________________
tuskie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2016, 12:54   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Valley of the Sun, Gilbert, AZ
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 49
Re: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

We had the repair work done last week. When the tech was done he told us that we were dry and no moisture was ever present. Big relief!


Craig
__________________
AZ_Zoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2016, 17:19   #45
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 307
Re: Lagoon 400 Technical Notice - Nacelle Drainage

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_Zoner View Post
We had the repair work done last week. When the tech was done he told us that we were dry and no moisture was ever present. Big relief!


Craig
Hello Craig, could you or any one else provide some pictures of exactly where the hole's have been drilled, I do have the paper instructions however it would be most helpful to see a finished job. Thanks in advance. Regards Peter
__________________

__________________
peterp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cal, lagoon, lagoon 400

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
400: Lagoon 400 or 400 S2 Big Joe Bob Lagoon Catamarans 20 11-01-2015 14:12
catamarans & nacelle pod propulsion Oceansurfer Multihull Sailboats 13 13-08-2014 15:26
nacelle pods & catamarans Oceansurfer Propellers & Drive Systems 3 13-08-2014 14:51
Drainage ksmith Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 02-11-2007 19:55
Head sink drainage Luders33 Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 6 25-08-2007 10:49


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:25.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.