General Info: Lagoon 400 or 42 for long term circumnavigating

[Jessec]

Background: I'm looking for input on others real world experience on what their thoughts are on which new Lagoon, 400 or 42 would be be best for long term live aboard to sail around the world over the next 10+ years. There will be just 2 of us plus occasional guests. I plan to start in the Caribbean and then head west through the Panama Canal, continue through the South pacific, etc.

What I understand so far from reading online which I take with a grain of salt,
42 - sails faster and is easier to tack?
42 - storage isn't organised well as the 400S2
400S2 - does everything well, not excellent, but well.

I'm not one to jump on the latest and greatest but will if it is justified from a practical stand point. I usually emphasise Function over Form @ 90%/10% ratio, and prefer to go with what is proven until the "New" proves itself to be at least as good as the old proven item.

Thanks in advance and I look forward to your feedback.

[Catapault]

I was looking at the same question over the last year, with roughtly the same criteria.

Our Decsion tree ended up as this.
380.. Too small, not modernenough (This is where we started).
39, nice, but nah, rather a 400.
400 S2 - Damn nice, would like larger, but this was the go-to boat for AGES.
42 - Very Very nearly bought this new, but storage was a BIG negative for the live aboard, long term cruiser. Frankly the 400 has more, a lot more.

In the end, after much sould searching and back and forth we bought a L450 F 3 Cabin second hand for way less than a new 42, and in the limited time (2 months). we've owned it, are VERY happy with our choice.

If it had not turned out we could afford the 450 F 2nd hand, we were going with a 400 S2 Owners as.

If you can afford a 42 NEW, then for your stated goal, I strongly recomend at least taking a look at a 450 F 2nd hand for the project you describe.

Failing that, I'd err on the side of the 400S2. This is what we were going to do.

Note: I've sailed a 400 and a 450, have not actually sailed a 42, though have inspected one several times.

We had also planned to start in the Carribean, but due to boat prices, the 450 F was doeable in Turkey for less, so now we are starting here. Also heading in the direction of Australia eventually...

I appreciate this dosn't have the realworld CRUSING experience, but it does reflect our real world boat search/purchasing decision with a similar goal. (There are also only 2 of us).



Regards

Mark.
L 450F, currently in pre-trip maintenance.

[Jessec]

Originally Posted by Catapault

I was looking at the same question over the last year, with roughtly the same criteria.

Our Decsion tree ended up as this.
380.. Too small, not modernenough (This is where we started).
39, nice, but nah, rather a 400.
400 S2 - Damn nice, would like larger, but this was the go-to boat for AGES.
42 - Very Very nearly bought this new, but storage was a BIG negative for the live aboard, long term cruiser. Frankly the 400 has more, a lot more.

In the end, after much sould searching and back and forth we bought a L450 F 3 Cabin second hand for way less than a new 42, and in the limited time (2 months). we've owned it, are VERY happy with our choice.

If it had not turned out we could afford the 450 F 2nd hand, we were going with a 400 S2 Owners as.

If you can afford a 42 NEW, then for your stated goal, I strongly recomend at least taking a look at a 450 F 2nd hand for the project you describe.

Failing that, I'd err on the side of the 400S2. This is what we were going to do.

Note: I've sailed a 400 and a 450, have not actually sailed a 42, though have inspected one several times.

We had also planned to start in the Carribean, but due to boat prices, the 450 F was doeable in Turkey for less, so now we are starting here. Also heading in the direction of Australia eventually...

I appreciate this dosn't have the realworld CRUSING experience, but it does reflect our real world boat search/purchasing decision with a similar goal. (There are also only 2 of us).



Regards

Mark.
L 450F, currently in pre-trip maintenance.

Mark, All good info, much appreciated.

[PaulinOz]

What is your time frame for purchase?

L42 sold out for a quiet a while unless you find a stock one coming in somewhere that is configured to your liking.

L400S2 being discontinued sometime soon in favor of the new L40 announced a few months ago.

or are you looking at used vessels.

[Jessec]

Originally Posted by PaulinOz

What is your time frame for purchase?

L42 sold out for a quiet a while unless you find a stock one coming in somewhere that is configured to your liking.

L400S2 being discontinued sometime soon in favor of the new L40 announced a few months ago.

or are you looking at used vessels.

I have also been looking at used but haven't been able to find anything in good shape that isn't priced so close to new that it doesn't make sense to buy used.

[meirriba]

Sailing/cruising L400 for the last 6 years, and having experienced L450 as well, I would suggest that FOR A COUPLE the 400 is the more suitable and manageable boat. The 450 in my opinion is too large for a two persons. The mainsail management is cumbersome. The helmperson is out of connection with the cockpit etc.
The L400 has a lot of space and if it is for a couple, you may consider transforming one of the cabins into workshop/storage.
Owners version!

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by Jessec

What I understand so far from reading online which I take with a grain of salt,
42 - sails faster and is easier to tack?
.

Probably a very big grain of salt. Whilst the self tacking jib may make the the new L42 easier to sail, I very much doubt that in "real world" cruising trim that it would be faster than a L400.
The sail area to weight ratio is very much in favour of the L400. The smaller sails of the L42 enable easier sailing but not better performance.

The big genoa of the L400 is not as quick to tack as a jib on a track, but in cruising this has rarely been an issue for us.

If you delve back through these Lagoon threads you will find plenty of real life cruising performance figures reported by L400 owners. Perhaps these will provide a benchmark if you test sail a L42. Remember to factor in the effect of a cruising load.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by tuskie

Probably a very big grain of salt. Whilst the self tacking jib may make the the new L42 easier to sail, I very much doubt that in "real world" cruising trim that it would be faster than a L400.
The sail area to weight ratio is very much in favour of the L400. The smaller sails of the L42 enable easier sailing but not better performance.

Not "real world experience", but MultiHull Dynamics figures give:

Bruce Number: (higher is faster)
400 - 1.04
42 - 1.22

Base Speed:
400 - 9.03 knots
42 - 10.15 knots

KSP:
400 - 5.83 knots
42 - 7.49 knots

Texel Rating: (smaller is faster)
400 - 149
42 - 128

So on all the theoretical performance figures, the 42 should perform considerably better than the 400.

Edit: the big difference appears to be in displacement. According to their figures, the 400 is almost twice the weight of the 42 (13.3 v 7.4t )

[Ulstue]

It is a well known issue with catamarans at market launch, that they are sensatonally light, especially in comparison to the equal competitors.

How credible is this: the same shipyard, the same material, similar construction, 2 feet larger but only half the weight. Thats magic!

[BambooSailor]

(13.3 v 7.4t )

Where did you get these wrong numbers? Published light displacement for L400 is 10.35t and 12t for L42. (7.4t is published light displacement of Lagoon 380.)

[Steve_C]

Originally Posted by Ulstue

How credible is this: the same shipyard, the same material, similar construction, 2 feet larger but only half the weight. Thats magic!

They hired the same guy that designed Snoopy's doghouse!

Seriously tho, it would be nice to see some actual apples to apples comparison. I was REALLY hoping to like the new 42 but after visiting one I was very disappointed by the lack of storage.

I am really hoping the new 40 doesn't follow the same trend, but I am afraid it will.

[PaulinOz]

The L42 is not my cup of tea, but what do I know over 250 ordered since it's debut at Dusseldorf Jan 2016 thats just 18 months. So there is a very decent market for the boat out there. Most manufacturers would be happy with that sort of number of sales for a models entire production run.

I was a bit disappointed to hear recently at the Sanctuary Cove Boat Show that Lagoon is going the way of the other brands in their nomenclature of size Names. The new L50 is actually only 48 foot but they say they need the buyers to be able to compare like sized vessels from different manufacturers from the name. It seems not all buyers are capable of reading a spec sheet. Maybe size does not matter as much as perceived size.

The factory presentation on the new L50 was very interesting, pity I did not ask about the new L40 presentation.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by BambooSailor

Where did you get these wrong numbers? Published light displacement for L400 is 10.35t and 12t for L42. (7.4t is published light displacement of Lagoon 380.)

"... MultiHull Dynamics figures ... According to their figures,..."

Multihull Dynamics, Inc. - Home

[Ulstue]

Maybe thats the older model named 42.

On the website of Lagoon the displacement for new 42 is 12 t.

[StuM]

Duh! Lagoon produced 51 "Lagoon 42"s from 1990-1994.

Lagoon catamarans : building, sale and chartering of luxury cruising catamarans

LAGOON 42 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Now they've introduced a completely different cat with the same designation

The Multihull Dynamics figures I quoted above are obviously for that old Lagoon 42.

Based on the actual numbers for the new Lagoon 42, I'd guess it doesn't sail nearly as well as the 400.