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Old 12-10-2009, 14:09   #1
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Lagoon 400 - Anybody Check it Out ?

Anybody get a chace to check out the Lagoon 400 at the Annapolis show.
I would like to hear your thoughts about the boat. I could not make the show but I will make it to Miami.
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Old 12-10-2009, 15:21   #2
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I posted this on another thread:

I was on the Lagoon 400 yesterday. Without a doubt, this was the worst catamaran I have ever been on. I dislike writing that, but I was shocked at what I found and can't believe a manufacturer is trying to put something like that boat out for sale. This boat was designed only for sitting on a dock, and it isn't even a good boat for that. I have become used to condomarans and charter boats, and give them credit for filling their design goals and market niche. I can give no credit to the Lagoon 400.

Where to start?

The galley has zero (none, not even a teeny tiny bit) of storage space. I thought maybe one could put a couple of dishes in the lone small ~18"x10" cupboard, but when I opened it, a tiny microwave was stuffed into it. The rest of the galley cabinetry was filled with a fridge, freezer and a small trash bin. Maybe future Lagoon 400 owners only eat frozen burritos and have no need for dishes, pots, pans and silverware?

The stbd owners hull is immense and open with no bulkheads dividing up the space (I am not listing this as a bad point - until later). However, the floorboards in the hulls creak, moan, move and spring as you walk on them. Really, really badly. None of them are secure, or can be secured, and I was concerned about falling through them they are so unsupported and cheap. Did I mention cheap?

The rest of the inside has similar cheap fit and finish throughout.

The engine compartments are very deep and poorly sealed. The boat at the show was delivered by ship from France to Baltimore and motored the short trip down to Annapolis, where the mast was stepped and rigged. Both engine compartments had leaked enough during the brief life of this boat that the exhaust manifolds were rusted and the exhaust elbows were severely rusted. There were no steps or easy access into or out of the ~6' deep engine compartments.

Walking up the starboard side deck, I was surprised to find the deck flexing and bouncing 1/8" like a trampoline! I weigh 160lbs wet and could deflect the deck 1/4" by gently bouncing up and down on it. Here is where having no bulkheads interfering with the interior volume manifests itself.

Both anchor rollers were pathetically undersized and installed on the cross beam with 1/4" aluminum pop rivets. One of the rollers was already pulling out the rivets. The rollers are simply unusable - even for just displaying a small stainless anchor at the dock. The fiberglass catwalk connecting the bridgedeck to the cross beam and guiding the anchor chain to the roller flexed alarmingly when stood on - probably 1" or more (again, I weigh 160lbs wet). The catwalk is designed mostly only for use as a chain guide, but it is going to be walked on because it is very wide and much more comfortable than the elastic fishnet Lagoon uses for the trampolines.

There is a single large storage locker in the bow with a very heavy lid. The lid has no handle or finger indent for using it. One opens it by getting your fingertips underneath the 1/8" gap between the lid and deck and pulling strongly with your fingernails. Once opened a bit, the gas struts take over and the lid comes up easily. Putting it back down is dangerous. When the lid gets 3/4 of the way down, the struts give up and the lid slams down hard. Right on your fingers because there is no handle or relief set into the lid. I almost lost a finger, but pulled my hand away just in time. The lid/locker interface is of a guillotine design and someone will get hurt.

The bow seats built into the pulpits were simply a piece of plywood cut to shape with the endgrains fully exposed. It was not sealed or coated in any way. I am giving Lagoon the benefit of the doubt here and thinking that they forgot to install the seats at the factory and the plywood cutouts were done at the last minute at the show. Although forgetting to install a piece of the boat at the factory brings other doubts to mind.

The helm design sweeping the catamaran market is one of the helmsman being completely exposed to the elements so that the coachroof can be seamlessly extended back across the whole cockpit. The Lagoon 4000 follows this trend. There is a cutout in the solid coachroof extension so that the poor skipper can burn himself, freeze himself or soak himself (or herself, but most women have more sense than to get on the helm in these designs). The coach roof is so high that even standing up on the raised helm a 5'11" person (me) can't see the opposite corner or side of the boat. The helmseat is the ubiquitous bench seat with a small round cushioned bar hitting you in the back in just the right place to cause incredible pain. I have never understood these types of backrests, but they are on many boats. The bench seat provides no lateral support and, coupled with its height above water, will be very uncomfortable and tiring in rough seas. But again, most of the charter market boats have this type of seat, so maybe I'm missing their charms.

Of course, there was no way to evaluate the sailing performance, but I was standing next to a woman who asked the Lagoon rep how the boat handled storms. His response was "you won't need to worry about bad weather because this boat can out-sail any storm". So I guess the sailing performance is superb and on par with the likes of Playstation.

The market competition for the Lagoon 400 is the FP Lipari. The Lipari also has a lot of flawed compromises, but it is a far, far superior boat than the Lagoon 400.

On the other hand, the Lagoon 400 was chock full of people drooling over it saying it is the best catamaran ever produced. So what do I know...

Just my observations and opinions,

Mark
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Old 12-10-2009, 16:28   #3
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Thanks Mark
Anybody else?
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Old 12-10-2009, 16:41   #4
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I saw it on Saturday

Well , In our hunt for a possible solution to my own Situation- I stumbled over to look at the lagoons.
Before seeing this I actually just read a entire review and performance evaulation of this boat in the sept/oct issue of Multihull world On the plane. Anyway Long story short- I am not as advanced as last poster regarding regarding every little structural detail - so my observations come from a more uneducated - more typical charterer terms.
I thought it looked pretty decent but a little cheap at the same time. It does appear that Lagoon was more concerned with craming a 48 ft cat into a 40 foot version. Based on the lines,weight my guess it would be on the slower side. For the average charter person - it would appear very comfortable. So basically status quo with most of their other product. Thought the New Leopard 384 was a better though out boat.
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Old 12-10-2009, 16:53   #5
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Great insight Mark!! cheers!!
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Old 12-10-2009, 17:58   #6
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I commend both Lagoon and FP on their unwavering support as equal opportunity employers, however I don't believe that having the interiors built and installed by the blind is of much help. Hyundai does a better job of fit than this. You can see daylight through every piece of woodwork in their boats.
The 400 was parked next to a 440 and appears to have gained a foot in free-board. That ought to add to the fun of docking with a breeze the wrong way. Same for the FP 41.

John
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Old 12-10-2009, 18:11   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I was on the Lagoon 400 yesterday. Without a doubt, this was the worst catamaran...

Mark
I am a non-expert on multihulls except for dock-side “tailgating…,” so take this with a huge grain of salt, but the Lagoon was a bit of a disappointment to my unpracticed eye… the grandson enjoyed lounging on the bow trampoline, but it looked like it might have been rushed to get to the show… several items from trampoline lacing to lockers looked “unfinished,” so the show version may not be representative of the brand, but there were ones there that seemed more attractive to me...

– a multi-curious, monohuller…
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Old 12-10-2009, 18:32   #8
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I'm getting the feeling it was not what all the hype was about!!!
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Old 12-10-2009, 18:40   #9
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Just a little point of fact: The Multihulls test/review was written by two Lagoon agents from Catco. Not what I would call disinterested reviewers.

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Old 12-10-2009, 19:33   #10
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Wow, how about that Antares 44i? If I only had $1,000,000.00.

I didn't care much for any of the Lagoons...the fly bridges just don't make sense to me. Especially when they only have a single or double seat!
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Old 12-10-2009, 20:24   #11
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I ran into a guy in the Bahamas last spring who had just bought a Lagoon in France and sailed it across the atlantic. He said the thing was a piece of crap. It had serious quality issues. He was going to get rid of it. I guess his problems were not unique to his boat.
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Old 12-10-2009, 21:20   #12
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At the show I loved the Antares 44

this appears to be a great thought out boat.

Also found the Prout 45 very surprising- my wife loved this boat.
As far as the Prout is concerned though its basically a new model that they are actually not building anymore (the 0 is the next one )on is now in China and Thailand. They use upscale finishing materials you usually dont see in boats with this pricing 650k ish- Only time will tell if quality issues pop up.

However If the quality holds up- This new prout operation will be something to seriously watch out for in the future.
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Old 12-10-2009, 23:38   #13
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Interesting, are the antares 44 as good as you make it sound?? How do they compare to the Privilege?? Thanks for your input!!
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Old 13-10-2009, 07:14   #14
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Thanks for all the input! Any rumors of Manta getting up and running again?
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Old 14-10-2009, 12:21   #15
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I was at the show as well and went aboard the Prout. Interesting, as I talked to a number of folks that said 'wow'. A couple of things jumped out to me when on the boat.

-- Slab granite looks great (countertops were slab granite in most areas) but VERY heavy, typically not something you want on a multihull. To me it was more about appearance than performance/utility.

-- The doors on the storage were hinged from the rear with poor design, so when opening the cupboards, they would actually scape on the door when opened. IMO very cheap on build quality.

-- I believe (may have this confused with another boat) that the port and starboard forward hulls had the holding tanks. Not sure why they would put that much weight up front.

-- The big - close to chandelier - light didn't make much sense to me either, but again, looked great...would be interested to see this utility while underway.

-- If 'felt' to me like there was a lot of gloss to cover up the most likely very heavy boat that probably won't perform well.

Would be interested if anyone did sea trials and had observations from that perspective.
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