380 S2: Lagoon 380 vs Leopard 38

[ireaney]

Originally Posted by amarinesurveyor

There are? none that I know of. I think they are all sail drives. I've seen them with both Yanmar and Volvo with the engines installed aft of the rudders.

I agree, never heard of a 380 with sail drives and it has never been offered as an option as the idea with the 380 was to get the engines out of the living space.

[BambooSailor]

I saw them with my own eyes in Greece, but it is possible the the boats were 410s, not 380s, I am not sure now. I think it is worth contacting Lagoon directly.

[ireaney]

Originally Posted by BambooSailor

I saw them with my own eyes in Greece, but it is possible the the boats were 410s, not 380s, I am not sure now. I think it is worth contacting Lagoon directly.

Maybe 42's or 37's but NOT 380's or 410's.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by littleships

Stay very very far away from anything with a saildrive. It takes a special kind of bravery to put to sea in a boat whose gearbox is situated in a vulnerable aluminium housing ( through a large hole in the hull) 18 inches below the boat immersed in seawater.
When it fails you normally have to haul the boat...and they fail exponentially more often than the standard propshaft/prop configuration.
Sure they are easier to build, give more room inside without a noisy engine under an aft bunk....however those are things that one can live with given the alternatives!
Again...just my humble opinion...I'm sure there are many happy saildrive owners out there.....

Without littlships' experience here AND very attracted to the concept of more room inside without a noisy engine, we'd like to hear from others on the sail drive vs shaft drive issue. The factory-builds all seem to be going to the sail drives, alrthough of course they may just be meeting market demand, rather than looking at maintenance issues later. JusDreaming also agrees with littleships and notes hearing lots of "grumbles about saildrives".

So are there ANY long-term happy saildrive owners out there???

[fixed wing]

go with a Leopard
try to do a test sail on the 40'

[amarinesurveyor]

This issue has been discussed here before; if you do a search you'll probably find a lot of reading.
I agree with little ships, give me straight shafts any day if I have the choice. There are many sail drive boats that are doing fine but they are spending the time and money to maintain the sail drives. I've looked at (surveyed) a lot of cats with sail drives and more times than not I find water in the gear oil from leaking shaft seals. Salt water in the gear oil is terrible for the gears and bearings. Shaft seals should be changed at every haul out, which should be done yearly in my opinion, but many people don't haul that frequently or change the seals when they have the opportunity. Other than that just making sure the zinc is in good shape and the paint on the drive in good condition are about the only other things that are musts.
I've not heard of any boats sinking from hull seals failing.
Brian

[D&D]

Thanks very much Brian
Just browsed through your website and you are certainly well qualified to comment. We're probably about the same age and I envy your marine experience and qualifications.
Accepting your view, we're potentially left with the combined conundrum of losing the space (required for the shaft drive) and finding relatively modern -- All the new ones seem to be with sail drives -- sail cats in our budget range without sail drives.
Anyway, I'm wondering off this thread so I'll stop and do some other enquiries on this (new to me!) issue. I am very grateful for your thoughts.
Cheers
Don

[mfreele]

When I compared the same 2 cats, I found the actual real storage capacity of the Lagoon 380 to totally put me off considering it for any liveaboard situation. For weeks or weekends, it is a beautiful yacht with it's near vertical salon windows, but the Leopard had much more functional storage space. They both have the external access for the engines, but the one on the Leopard is as littleships said "capacity to throw a party in". I think you need to determine what your needs are. Causual outings or are you planning to really live on her?

[snort]

Jim,
Why are you selling the PDQ 36

[jimlong]

Snort, In fact we have already sold the PDQ and loved everthing about this catamaran including the superb sailing ability, the outboard Yamahas and the shallow draft. In the next 2-3 years my wife and I would like to spend some time in the Caribbean, possibly circumnavigate and would like a larger salon area and cockpit. We loved the layout on the Leopard 38 and its affordability, also like the looks of it over the Lagoon.

[D&D]

Jim,
It seems unusual (to us anyway) to see praise for outboard engines, perhaps especially in this forum but perhaps also elsewhere. You are obviously now looking at inboard diesels; are these are just something you must take to achieve your larger salon and cockpit...or do you see them now as a 'feature' for your proposed use? If you feel inclined, we'd be interested too in simply why you mentioned the outboards as a 'feature' for you in the past?
Cheers,
Don

[jimlong]

Don, I guess one of the biggest advantages of the outboards was the ease of maintenance, throw a rope over the boom and the little suckers pop out with little effort at all. They can be replaced for about $2500 and an hour's worth of labor.
Another advantage that comes to mind is that there is no drag created underneath with the outboards as you might experience with a saildrive or prop-shaft drive, they simply retract up and out of the way for increased speed.
Lastly, the fact that they are housed externally away from the living quarters is obviously a big plus in that you don't have to contend with all the stink and mess associated with diesel engines.
Our PDQ was a 36 ft. model about 18 ft. wide and those outboards pushed it along without to much fuss at between 7-8 knots using very little gas.
I realize that since we require a larger living space that compromises will have to be made and hopefully I will be as lucky with the diesels as I was with those outboards. Jim

[sandy daugherty]

Jim nailed it. To be more specific, when you move up to a bigger boat that needs more than 20 total hp, there just aren't any outboards built that will do as well. Some come close, but in the final analysis, aren't that much better. This topic has been thoroughly thrashed out elsewhere.

[SelkirkWind]

I would recommend you go to the Leopard Owners forum on Yahoo. The guy who runs it has a highly modified Leopard 38 as do many of the others on the site. They have reams of info on where to get original (or close to) replacement equipment. Their experiences with a wide range of production years and ex-charter boats is invaluable.

I have sailed both boats several times. I bought a Leopard.....

[jimlong]

I have tried to access that forum and submitted registration requirements yet have never heard back from them. Maybe you have to be an owner to access their website. Jim