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Old 17-02-2010, 07:05   #16
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: "Circumnavigating" the Caribbean
Boat: Lagoon 380; Indigo Moon
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I hear ya, Seth.

And yes, I have enjoyed seeing you guys' website and videos too! AWESOME!

I really wish we had met "out there." I'll have to let you know the next time we are going to a boat show and maybe we can hook up and "laugh and cry" about our Lagoons and trade adventure stories too.

Let's face it, we are all brothers and sisters in a pretty cool club now!

BTW, I want to interject that I have never been over-protective of Lagoon. They certainly have their isssues and many of your gripes are well-known amongst all us Lagoon owners. I have grumbled about them openly too.

I am not interested in "puffing my wares" as far as Indigo Moon goes.

The very first person who looks at her and knows anything about boats and 380's will understand what I have done with this boat.

They will immediately appreciate her amazing condition and they will RUN to the bank to get a reasonable offer together and buy her.

So, it's just a matter of the right person coming to see her. We don't have to sell her. As such, I can relax and enjoy finding her a good home with another anal-retentive mechanically-savvy maniac like me who will pet on her and keep up all the blood, sweat and tears I have invested in her.

But back to Lagoon.

They have seemed arrogantly disconencted at times when it comes to factory support and it was not until I was lucky enough to become personally known by their warranty guy, David Farrington, that I was able to get reasonably quick answers that I wanted so badly when the boat was new to me and there were many mysteries.

He's an American and does not have that Lagoon "attitude."

The Lagoon guys (with David excepted) are very gracious when accepting compliments, but can be pretty arrogant at times when fielding legitimate criticisms.

For example, if you complain that the fuel tanks should be twice as big on a 380, you will be quickly scolded for not being a sailor . . .

All you have to do is look under the floorboards and see a huge, wasted, empty space behind the smallish, existing fuel tanks to really get MAD. "What were they thinking? All they had to do was buy a bigger tank and lay it right in there!" is always the type of fuming sentiment on such issues.

As any new boat owner, my first couple of years were nervous while servicing "this and that" and while all of the 380's mysteries unfolded in the process. I was happy to ultimately find that there were no terrible surprises . . . just niggling things.

Nowadays, there are no mysteries on my boat . . . NADA.

I have touched, and either sorted out and been satisfied with, or completetly re-done, every single thing on my boat . . . from the mast head to the bottom of the keels and literally every single thing in between.

I now get calls from people in the industry and owners from all over the world when they have a question about the 380.

My understanding is one that only comes with six and a half years of intensive hands-on servicing and re-engineering all focused on ONE single boat and that, of course, makes me a great source for those "what happens when" or "has this ever happened" questions about my generation 380.

I guess I'll have to write a series of books or make a box set of DVDs explaining all the 380's innards and offering my "work smarter not harder" tricks of getting at various components and servicing them. I think that would be a great gift to my fellow man.

And make no mistake, I don't work for Lagoon and will "call a spade a spade." There were times when I wanted to give somebody at Lagoon a "good country ass-whipping" for cutting a corner that did NOT need to be cut, or for settling for a bolt-on component that just did not cut it and would only last long enough to get the boat out of warranty.

And sometimes it's not even the component, but the installation, and that IS Lagoon's clear fault.

Take, for example, the aluminum windlass mounted onto a stainless bracket, and no insulation between those dissimilar metals. DUH! The proving ground "out here" uncovers all such sins in the fullness of time.

I have very good friends on other 380's and we often exchanged those unfortunate emails: "Has this happened to you yet?! LOOK OUT! It's coming!"

I got one of those "380 cruiser alerts" on the windlass saying: "Buddy, has your windlass flown off and crashed into the front of the anchor locker yet?"

UGH!

Luckily, the answer was "No!"

So, I took the windlass off and even had to wring-off the bolts . . . they were stainless bolts corroded into the alumimun base plate of the windlass. And sure enough, the aluminum bottom plate of the windlass was cracking and on it's way to beaking loose!

So, I re-engineered the whole thing with a new plate from heavy stainless, and stainless studs that accept stainless nuts and washers from under the stainless mounting bracket insuring the windlass will be easy to take off if it is ever needed again.

From the looks of the innards of the windlass, it will outlast the boat. It was in perfect shape. So that problem was not with the windlass itslef but how it was mounted.

I did a complete report on it with pictures in the Venezuela trip log.

The new, very heavy duty plate was insulted from the aluminum case of the windlass with gasket material, silicone and tef gel and the whole thing will be dependable and is totally and completely FIXED and done right.

It took time and effort to fix the windlass. The original setup got the boat past warranty, but from the git-go it was not going to last for the long haul.

I guess car makers do that too, but as consumers, I guess we all resent that mind set, despite planned-obsolecence being a well-accepted manufacturing practice.

On another note, it's my understanding that the bigger boats have the bulkhead problems.

The loads on the matrix skyrocket when hulls get longer and more spread-out.

I saw a brand new Lagoon 62 in Fort Lauderdale this year getting a stress rip fixed in the hull where it meets the bridgedeck . . . that's a 2.5 million dollar boat with what looked to me like a structural issue!!!!

I took a few pictures while cruising under her trampoline in the dinghy.

I suspect Lagoon has perhaps intentionally walked close to the line of lightweight construction to keep performance up there, (obviously with vac-bagging in play) and they probably KNOW where lines are after all that violent, ocean racing experience by their design team.

But they obviously get pretty dang close to that line and it results in some "cutting edge" problems.

One of the big gripes I saw with fellow cruisers, as Lagoon got bigger and bigger and pumped out more and more boats, is that it seemed like they started to try and meet increased demand by pushing the production line out into the field, letting the warranty department finish the boats . . . at least that's what a few fellow cruisers I sailed with on new Lagoons experienced and they were NOT happy about it.

All that said. Lagoon is not alone. All cats have a vulnerable "underbelly" somewhere. There are just too many tradeoffs not to give something up.

Take Catana for example. They are beautiful boats I have always lusted after in some respects. But . . .

I have never seen any of this with my own eyes, but I have heard many complaints in the form of hearsay.

There is at least one yard that won't haul them because the hulls are so thin amd can be damaged so very easily.

One friend who owns a St. Francis tells everybody he meets how "ludicrously thin the bottoms of hulls of Catanas are" and that he saw one being repaired and saw how "paper-thin" the bottoms of the hulls were with his own eyes and that he would not go out of the sight of land on one. He calls them "the Bayliners" of Catamarans. Pretty harsh. I still think they are beautiful.

In Wilmington, NC I was at a marina and yard where a locally famous "fiberglass magician" spoke of having to "just about completely rebuild" a Catana to beef it up and "finally make it a good strong boat."

Whether true or not, I don't know, but these harsh comments keep surfacing about Catanas.

The bottom of my 380 hulls are solid glass and plenty thick. So, at least that is not one of Lagoon's alleged problems. When you pick a cetain boat, you pick certain basket of problems too.

Want to hear about what's inherently wrong with Manta's? St. Francis? Leopard? Voyage? Fontaine Pajot?

I've heard it all around pot lucks and campfires over the last five years from OWNERS of cruising cats, and ALL cats have their shortcomings.

Some of those shortcomings on certain brands CAN'T be fixed and you simply have to suck it up and live with them.

If I posted all the allgeations and remarks from both owners and others about all the various cats it would start a riot of ill-will, hurt feelings, and defensive flame wars that I care not to plow up, obviously. We all love our boats like they are our children and I respect that.

But let's just say that what I know about the "dirty secrets" of most all the cats is, well, a LOT!

That is where my 380 has, despite some legitimate frustrations you expressed, Seth, has been a real winner.

There is not one single really, truly unacceptable and dissapointing attribute that I had to live with, or else literally rebuild the whole boat in order to set right.

I was able to fix virtually all of my boat's shortcomings myself. As non-sensical as it might sound, that alone makes it an awesome boat in the grand scheme of things as far as I'm concerned and in light of what I know about all the other cat choices I could have made.

Well, I'm just rambling now . . . sorry.

Hey, let me say again . . . Thanks Seth! for taking the time to post such a thoughtful review and I hope you guys are living large!

Maybe we can start a fraternity of Lagoon live aboards and set up an annual charter trip in the BVI every year to get together and keep the embers burning in our Lagoon cruising campfires. That would be fun!

We'll all rent Moorings Leopards instead of Lagoons, though, just to be contrary!

All the best and thanks again,

Buddy
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Old 17-02-2010, 17:50   #17
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Hi Buddy,

Not that we are in the mutual admiration club, but I could not agree with you more! Maybe I didn't make this point clear enough in my review, but I was extremely satisfied with my Lagoon and was very happy to find that most of the "problems" that I did encounter were not serious issues. I mean, let's be honest, I had no problem living with the wood finish for two years and the windlass worked perfectly for 99.9% of the time, so it was just small things that upset me. And that is pretty amazing given all the systems and incredible complexity found on modern day boats of this type. The Lagoon is not just a good boat, it is a great boat. I just didn't realize this when I bought it.

Also, you bring up two additional concerns I had not been aware of. I didn't know about the windlass corrosion issue, but did notice the white paint starting to chip on my windlass due to corrosion and will urge the new owner to take a closer look based on your experience.

Second, I am glad you mention thin fiberglass in the hulls and bulkhead separation. I think you and I had good boats, but I have heard of Lagoons with thin hulls. I don't know if special attention is paid to the owner's versions or if the production volume has increased too quickly, but the newer boat models seem to be experiencing more problems than some of the older boat models. New buyers should be aware and not rely on their surveyor to find the issues. Get under your boat when it is being hauled out and push hard on the hulls in the spots where strain is taken (like under the stairs). Make sure your hull is rigid and reinforce it if not... (And thanks for passing on the info about Catana, I did not know this).

Thanks again for your input Buddy,
Seth
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Old 13-02-2011, 14:49   #18
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Nice reading
we are getting hul #637 in May.
and now i know what to look for.
if some more pops up, let it flow.

Thanks guys.
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Old 16-02-2011, 03:35   #19
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Boat: Still doing research...
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Hi Seth

I just wanted to compliment you on your blog. I really enjoyed reading them, and watching the videos (albeit two years late). I could tell from your writing that both you and Elizabeth have a great sense of humour and a positive attitude to life.

I'm new to coastal cruising myself (an absolute novice – I haven’t been sailing since I was in my late teens – I’m 40 now). Right now I'm at the genesis of yacht ownership. Meaning, I'm in the research stage and have not yet acquired one.

I've pretty much narrowed my choice to a Lagoon. But I haven't decided if I should spend the extra on a 400 or save a heap and get the 380. Getting the 380 will give me more cruising budget and extra $$$ for accessories and options needed for my purpose.

I plan to get extensive experience by sailing up and down the east coast of Australia, and once experienced enough and the boat set-up to my blue water requirements, hop my way across some beautiful South Pacific islands (including a trip to New Zealand).

Reading your blog and watching your video, is really inspiring. It just reinforced my decision to own a yacht isn’t just throwing money in a hole in the ocean, but a life worthy experience.

I love the concept of the Caribbean 1500. It gives you that feeling of security in numbers. I’ll do some research to see if there is a similar setup in Australia – sailing north to the Great Barrier Reef from Sydney. It could be a fun and making friends for life experience.

Not that I plan to sail to the Caribbean just yet, but where do one get more information about the Caribbean 1500?

Anyway, thank you for all the feedback about your Lagoon experience (and the others who’d contributed here). I’ll use this new found info to my advantage when searching for my own boat.

Regards
Allan
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Old 09-05-2012, 06:54   #20
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Re: Lagoon 380 User Review (15,500 Mile Review)

Thanks for your reports, I own now my second Lagoon 380 and would like to add to the lists of improvements:

the emergency hatches trend to leak and it ist difficult to repair this.

inside the boat under the plancs besides the bathscabins where you have the tubes for draining besides the keels the water always stands at the lowest part as it has no drainage. The consequence of this was, that the water there begun to smell and the glassfiber became leaking into the hull.

Solution: to level this parts 4 times about 3m x 20 cm .

Generelly this boat is good, specially for cruising and I am sad to have to stop sailing due to age and health problems.
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Old 01-08-2012, 13:22   #21
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Re: Lagoon 380 User Review (15,500 Mile Review)

Is there anyone that knows where to get an hardtop bimini for a lagoon 380, or even better knows how to build one!

Best regards

Daniel
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Old 04-08-2012, 10:13   #22
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Re: Lagoon 380 User Review (15,500 Mile Review)

You can get it from the factory. bimini or fiberglass.
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Old 24-02-2013, 14:52   #23
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Re: Lagoon 380 User Review (15,500 Mile Review)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baziskipper View Post
Thanks for your reports, I own now my second Lagoon 380 and would like to add to the lists of improvements:

the emergency hatches trend to leak and it ist difficult to repair this.

inside the boat under the plancs besides the bathscabins where you have the tubes for draining besides the keels the water always stands at the lowest part as it has no drainage. The consequence of this was, that the water there begun to smell and the glassfiber became leaking into the hull.

Solution: to level this parts 4 times about 3m x 20 cm .

Generelly this boat is good, specially for cruising and I am sad to have to stop sailing due to age and health problems.
Great info here! I have to ask, I am sad to hear you say you are stoping sailing because of health, but I have two lake houses that are for sale to fund buying a lagoon 38 & wonder if you or anyone would want to reinvest in rental houses, In west central FL, both houses are valued a little over 200 each & would be great trade or part trade,either way I am selling out to get a lagoon, but it would save me time if I found a way to trade, Thanks
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Old 28-02-2013, 18:25   #24
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Re: Lagoon 380 User Review (15,500 Mile Review)

Quote:
Originally Posted by careka View Post
You can get it from the factory. bimini or fiberglass.
I built one out of StarLite over the factory SS frame. Cost was well under $1000, not including labor. See pictures on lagoon yahoo site under I Dream o Jeanne. Tim
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