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Old 28-02-2007, 13:38   #16
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380 not 440

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeannius
It was a Lagoon 440 not 380 as originally thought.
Lagoon have officially confirmed that it was a 380.
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Old 28-02-2007, 14:21   #17
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380 not 440 confirmation

How was it confirmed by Lagoon that it was a 380 and not 440, I have trolled the net and cannot find any written confirmation, or was it through a dealer by phone.
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Old 28-02-2007, 14:28   #18
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I had it confirmed that this was a 380 by my Lagoon dealer. Given that I am having a Lagoon delivered across the Atlantic in less than 2 months time, I wanted to clarify details of the event and my own delivery insurance coverage.
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Old 01-03-2007, 00:42   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 420Hull58
Lagoon have officially confirmed that it was a 380.
It was on the website of the skipper who died, with a photo of a Lagoon 440 Steve Hobley: although it is captioned as a Lagoon 44
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Old 01-03-2007, 02:01   #20
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Hi Jeannius, This is what I thought as it had his diary list of deliveries and it gave the dates and the boats he was delivering and this date stated a 440. I am going to look at a new 420 next week on the Hamble and will quiz the Ancasta team about the whole issue.
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:56   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeannius
Are you sure this was a Lagoon 380? All French cats over 35 ft have to have escape hatches that can be accessed from both sides in the event of a capsize. Surely they'd have been able to get back inside the hull to shelter?
I'd highly doubt that you can UNLOCK the hatch from OUTSIDE.
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Old 01-03-2007, 09:20   #22
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Are we talking about 2 different Lagoons here? The crew of the Lagoon 440 which was being delivered to Seattle was never found. The dismasted and capsized boat washed up on an Oregon beach.
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Old 01-03-2007, 09:44   #23
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Quote:
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Are we talking about 2 different Lagoons here? The crew of the Lagoon 440 which was being delivered to Seattle was never found. The dismasted and capsized boat washed up on an Oregon beach.
No, that was a Voyage 440, built in Cape Town, not a Lagoon.

Confusion reigns.

I would also like to know about that Lagoon - a 440 or 380? I wonder why Steve describe delivering a 440, and Lagoon now say it is a 380?
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Old 01-03-2007, 09:51   #24
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I'd highly doubt that you can UNLOCK the hatch from OUTSIDE
rtbates

This is true...BUT on my cat and I expect all new cats there is a large RED warning sticker at the excape hatch that says WARNING keep hatch unlocked wile sailing

And in fact I never lock mie wile underway, I have wondered why these folks did not open them up & go inside?
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Old 01-03-2007, 11:44   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtbates
I'd highly doubt that you can UNLOCK the hatch from OUTSIDE.
You can on a Privilege... There is a locking bar that will - or at least should - drop off if the boat is ever inverted leaving you then with a standard lewmar hatch that can be opened from the outside.

I fly out on Saturday for an offshore passage to St Lucia and you can be certain I'll be checking that the locking bar is still free to move.
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Old 02-03-2007, 16:37   #26
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If it is true that they were on a run, does this mean they had their jib up or were they motoring?
A 45-foot wave would be unkind to any sail.

Have we definitively confirmed the boat as a lagoon 38 or 440 yet?
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Old 03-03-2007, 02:48   #27
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Why does it matter so much if it is a 440, 380 or whatever?

I have read enough of these tragedy threads to know this pattern. It seems like whenever something goes wrong at sea everyone goes ape asking questions, and yelling at eachother (see "Ken Barnes" or "Lagoon 440 found upside down") I don't mean to sound harsh but finding out what model the boat is or arguing over storm tactics or anything else isnt' going to bring anyone back, nor is it going to protect anyone from this happening to them. Repeat after me... "the sea is unpredictable", "the sea is unpredictable", "the sea is unpredictable". This means that you can do a good job and be cautious and exercise expert seamanship but sometimes it just gets you. The sea is a lot like regular lubberly life. Sometimes you just don't see it coming.

Sorry for the rant, everyone deals with mortality in their own way and I am not trying to criticize, just pointing something out. Scares the hell out of me, quite frankly.
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Old 03-03-2007, 10:37   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unbusted67
I don't mean to sound harsh but finding out what model the boat is or arguing over storm tactics or anything else isnt' going to bring anyone back, nor is it going to protect anyone from this happening to them. Repeat after me... "the sea is unpredictable", "the sea is unpredictable", "the sea is unpredictable".
Whilst I agree with you that these sort of threads do tend to degenerate, particularly when folk end up arguing about "facts" which have only been guessed at......I would say that they do overall act as a counterweight to all the shiny brochures and advertorials featuring blue sky, sandy beaches and flat sea to help new boat owners realise that the reality can sometimes be very different.........and especially that "simple" decisions and actions early on can have a disproportionate (sp??!!) effect later on.........and that their is often no one answer to a situation, and sometimes their is no "good" answer...........

IMO it does not really matter that the threads do not agree on many things, it is the fact that they show disagreement that is important.

"the sea is unpredictable".......yes, but many things can be prepared for - but I agree that sometimes no matter what you do that if "the Sea Gods are against you" then yer fooked .

FWIW, although I do not know, I would guess that the Cat in question did not have any drogue or sea anchor. It's a charter cat - why would it have one onboard?
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Old 03-03-2007, 11:58   #29
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It could be said too that these discussions are good for learning what not to do. But like you say sometimes you are just fooked.

Quote:
I would say that they do overall act as a counterweight to all the shiny brochures and advertorials featuring blue sky, sandy beaches and flat sea to help new boat owners realise that the reality can sometimes be very different
It's strange I've heard this said a bunch of times, that the sailing industry is blowing smoke up everyone's you-know-whats and that newcomers to the sport need to have a wake up call or be reminded of the sometimes grim truth. But as someone who is relatively new to the sport/activity I would say I was given the opposite impression. "Nature is scary, unpredictable and violent and you'll be lucky to get out alive" or something along those lines. Haven't you been watching tv lately (hope not)? Every other program is about man's inconsequentiality in the face of the beast.

Although the monthly US sailing and ASA brochures I get with smiling faces and secluded Bahaman anchorages do show one side of it, most literature written today on sailing is very much man vs. nature, surviving the storm, etc. I think it was in the intro to a Web Chiles book where he said he had been sailing for thirty years and most of that time has been spent slogging along or sailing peacefully but that that is not what people want to read about so here are the few times I ever got in trouble while sailing...or something along those lines

-b
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Old 03-03-2007, 14:21   #30
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"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

... to quote George_Santayana.
The reason that we look at these sad happenings is that we do not want them to reccur.
Our aircraft, our roads and even our military are safer because systematic investigations have taken place to determine why so many died.
While the number of marine incidents and the number of deaths is (relativly) small I believe it is essential to the enjoyment of our activity to make it as safe as possible.
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