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Old 17-12-2013, 15:16   #1
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L450 Window leaks

Can any L450 or any Lagoon owner please help with advice:

Our L450 has developed a leak from around the top of the saloon windows. The local lagoon dealers service man has had a look and said that the windows will need to come out and be resealed.

1. Has anyone else had window leaks (L450 or any Lagoon)?
2. If so what was done to fix it?
3. We will try to have Lagoon pay for the fix under warrantee (we are 22 months old). It may be covered under "Hull and Decks" which is for 5 years but I am concerned the warrantee wording seems vague enough to have them deny paying. Any suggestions?

Thanks, Dave
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Old 17-12-2013, 15:50   #2
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Re: L450 Window leaks

No leaks on mine. Good luck and keep us updated.
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Old 18-12-2013, 06:26   #3
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Re: L450 Window leaks

Hi Dave can you please keep us updated on the progress as ours arrives in March and would like to see what the dealer does for you.

Good luck
Wayne
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Old 18-12-2013, 07:22   #4
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Re: L450 Window leaks

DavefromNZ,

If the window is pulling away from the adhesive, then it is most likely that someone missed putting the primer on the Acrylic window in that area or they used old primer. If they pull the window off and it’s all shiny at the bond area then they did not prime it.

Boat Acrylic Windows

1) ACRYLITE GP acrylic sheet is a cell-cast acrylic sheet 3/8 thickness

2) Dow Automotive BETAMATE7120 Single-component, high-viscosity, atmospheric humidity-curing polyurethane bonding/sealing compound for high-strength, permanently elastic adhesive joints. Apply ½ thick and squeezed out to 3/8 when window is installed

3) Dow Automotive Betaprime 5404 Pinchweld and encapsulation Primer. Used only on the plastic window sheet. Lightly scotbright 2” around bounding edge and apply this primer onto the sanded 2” area around the outer edge

The adhesive used is standard automotive window glass adhesive with one difference.
The windows are not glass, so a primer has to be used on just the window so the adhesive will bond.

Note: the outside of the Acrylic sheets are painted for 2” around the periphery of the window so the UV light from the sun will not break down the adhesive.

On a car the adhesive is covered by metal or plastic trim, so the adhesive will not break down, but on a boat the edges are exposed to the suns UV light which is not good.
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Old 19-12-2013, 02:08   #5
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Re: L450 Window leaks

Thank you and in particular Cotemar as I think you are right re the missed primer in one location. Please see attached picture. The window has un-bonded for about 30cm, bulges out about 5mm and it moves when I push it.

We are going to have to do a temporary fix so we can use it over our summer and then try to remove and re-glue. A claim on the warrantee has been put in.
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Old 19-12-2013, 05:39   #6
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Re: L450 Window leaks

I had one that was leaking also. When I pushed on it I could see a small gap. Bravely, I pried a little more and within a minute I had the whole window off.

I called a local car windshield replacement company. They came out to the boat and put the Dow Automotive Betaprime 5404 primer on the 2" boarder of the window and then re-bonded it on. It's been good for 5 years now, with no worries.
I was reimbursed for all cost to do the repair.
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Old 20-12-2013, 17:44   #7
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Re: L450 Window leaks

Dave

My first L450 had such badly leaking salon windows that one day I checked some cabling behind the nav-station and had enough salt on my hand for all the boiled eggs for the rest of my life. This was after about 5 months, with 1 month in the rough Greek Meltemi weather.

My new L450 has the same leaky window problem after 8 weeks.

Each time the repair was done by cutting and pulling some of the caulking out and putting new caulking in. This time they used Sikaflex. I doubt it will hold for long. I guess I will go and buy the stuff Cotemar is recommending and do it myself when the caulking shows "delimitation" from the windows.

By the way in some places the caulking separated from the window in other places from the deck.
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Old 20-12-2013, 17:50   #8
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Re: L450 Window leaks

Dave

Just looked at your picture in detail. Looks like you have a 2mm gap between the window and the caulking. That is huge. my gaps were barely visible. Make sure you check all around, also the windows to the cockpit. If you see the slightest dark border, press a little bit with a blunt end object in on the caulking. You may see how the caulking and the window are not attached to each other anymore. The problem is usually much wider spread than shows on fist inspection
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Old 21-12-2013, 12:49   #9
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Re: L450 Window leaks

Hi Rolf,

Yes the window moves so has become unstuck. I am very concerned it will be a bigger problem and ruin my summer in Fiordland, NZ, that I have been planning for all year.

Best wishes for Christmas and the Festive Season, dave
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Old 21-12-2013, 15:10   #10
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Re: L450 Window leaks

Hi Dave

I should take a window person about an hour to two to put it back in. Good luck with your travel to Fjordland. We are sitting in Ft. Lauderdale dealing with warrant issues and installing, solar, water maker, inverter, etc.
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Old 21-12-2013, 15:53   #11
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Re: L450 Window leaks

This is a case where you have to take the bull by the horns.

Water is leaking into your boat. Do not wait for Lagoon to send you a check.

Call around to find a local car window repair guy that has done a few boat windows.

Tell them you will be there to assist where needed.

Tell the installer to bring
Dow Automotive BETAMATE 7120 permanently elastic adhesive
Dow Automotive Betaprime 5404 Primer to apply only on the acrylic window

Make an appointment to meet at the boat and complete the window repair together.

This is the way I did it and it went off without a hitch.
I sent a bill to the manufacturer with my hours included and it was paid in full. Now you can enjoy your season.
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Old 22-12-2013, 17:43   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
This is a case where you have to take the bull by the horns. Water is leaking into your boat. Do not wait for Lagoon to send you a check. Call around to find a local car window repair guy that has done a few boat windows. Tell them you will be there to assist where needed. Tell the installer to bring Dow Automotive BETAMATE 7120 permanently elastic adhesive Dow Automotive Betaprime 5404 Primer to apply only on the acrylic window Make an appointment to meet at the boat and complete the window repair together. This is the way I did it and it went off without a hitch. I sent a bill to the manufacturer with my hours included and it was paid in full. Now you can enjoy your season.
I looked for Betamate 7120 online in the USA. Dow does not list it on their website. Any ideas?

I would like to have some on my boat as we are going to the Bahamas for several months, and things are difficult to get thee.
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Old 22-12-2013, 17:57   #13
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Re: L450 Window leaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by roetter View Post
I looked for Betamate 7120 online in the USA. Dow does not list it on their website. Any ideas?

I would like to have some on my boat as we are going to the Bahamas for several months, and things are difficult to get thee.
I have only been able to buy it from a car window replacement shop.
Call around to see who will sell it to you.
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Old 22-12-2013, 20:16   #14
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I have used Dow795with good success. Available online from McMaster Carr.
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Old 23-12-2013, 18:02   #15
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Re: L450 Window leaks

I don't even see it on the NA Dow website. Maybe it is not available in NA.
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