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Old 30-09-2018, 08:23   #736
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

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Originally Posted by Darksyde View Post
Dave,

i have AC and I used it maybe once this year . So if you are not planning to
go Turkey in August or stay longer in a Marina there is no need here in the med.

Even with the Baby you will not cool down a lot .

Think more about heating :-)
i am thinking of a Diesel heater

My two cents .

M
could have told me that 16,000 dollars ago!

only kidding, I know with the baby now and me having to go to work that Hayley will need to be in a marina while I'm away so I know we'll need (want) it.

I'm all ears on the diesel heater ideas too.
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Old 30-09-2018, 08:30   #737
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Dave. The economics of Diesel vs Ac heating very depends on Marina contract. If electricity is not metered and is flatly included in Marina rates, go A/C for heating.
And A/C de-humidifies too!
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Old 30-09-2018, 08:37   #738
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

It is about heating under way or at anchor. Sure you can run the generator to run the A/c to heat the salon, but it is very inefficient.

Of course - if your main goal is to live in the marina all the time - and electricity is included - go for it.
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Old 30-09-2018, 09:14   #739
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

CNB if one of your inverters is original equipment and the other a Quattro how have you arranged them to syncronize frequency? Thx
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Old 30-09-2018, 11:47   #740
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

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Originally Posted by Pascals Wager View Post
CNB if one of your inverters is original equipment and the other a Quattro how have you arranged them to syncronize frequency? Thx
The Quattro has a power assist function, it syncs itself to the source. Just connect the output of the MassSine to the input of the quattro.
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Old 30-09-2018, 22:26   #741
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

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Originally Posted by CatNewBee View Post
The Quattro has a power assist function, it syncs itself to the source. Just connect the output of the MassSine to the input of the quattro.
Thanks, I have a Quattro but misunderstood your post thought you had them in parallel.
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Old 30-09-2018, 23:57   #742
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Parallel to the second inverter would also be possible using the Grid functionality, where you can allow the Quattro to feed back energy into the grid, but I would not recommend this setting.

I use the power assist function and a input sensor line of the quattro by switching a 220V coil relay on when there is an output on the MassSine side, that has 12V contacts and signals that the 220V are coming from the second inverter. Then I use a macro on the Quattro to turn off the charger, if there is a HIGH on this input, so the Quatro does not try to charge the battery, a second macro sets the power assist current for the Input to 8A what translates to 1840W.

When I turn off the MassSine inverter and flip the switch to shore power, the limit is set to 16A - there is a LOW on that input, the charger is then ON and the power assist current is set to 16A - what is standard wiring in EU marinas. I can change the value if I am at a 6A outlet if necessary.
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Old 05-10-2018, 05:15   #743
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

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Welcome to Cruisers Forum and congratulations! You're going to love it!

I'll try and answer all your questions as best as I can but don't forget, all my choices are made for us to live on board and sail around the world so your needs may be different.

1. IMO you don't need 11kva, I think 9kva max is fine but I'd defo consider going for Onan or Northern Lights. Spare parts are not easy to get for the Paguro and mechanics won't want to touch it.

2. Forget the Lagoon inverter. Over priced and 2kva will be tripping every time you try and make toast and tea at the same time!

3. Water maker we did after market. We have a sea recovery 130l per hours 220v. I love it.

4. I think there were things on the comfort package like electric toilets and the galley window ( I forget the whole list) but I remember we never even considered not going for it.

5. We pushed the deadline on our options list right to the very end. I think it was maybe 2 months before launch that our final selection had to be in.

6. We had no experience at all. I ended up having to work and missed the launch so I had a friend of a friend sail it to Gibraltar. This was the first time my wife Hayley had been on a sail boat. The first time I pulled a halyard was when we departed Gibraltar for Ibiza.

7. I think the most important thing to get right is the electrical side of things. Being on a boat and not knowing how to get the kettle working or how to turn on the AC is no fun. Without doubt, the best thing I did was our Victron install. Living on our boat is just like living at home in our apartment. There's no switching this / isolate that, if we want power it's there. Solar is the 2nd best thing we did. It gives us shade, shelter from the rain and gives us loads of power into the batteries. win win win.

As for all your other questions, ask away! You've caught me at a very good time.

Hi Dave! I like a lot your videos on Youtube. My wife and me have a lot of fun watching them and it is always inspiring for some new ideas. Now I am sitting in La Rochelle and preparing our new Lagoon 450F. We had a 421 before. One question I have is, I remember one of your posts, it must be quite at the beginning of this thread, were you said that you might in future extend your arch for the solar panels. You would have done it anyway if your wife had not told you that it might not look so nice with a bigger arch behind. So what is your opinion now? Is it just perfect as it is now or would you consider putting more panels on your arch by extending it (for more energy and more protection of sun and rain )?

Pascal
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Old 05-10-2018, 12:43   #744
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Hi Dave,
Thanks for the new video, always fun. I like how all your videos have a "teck problem solving" part ! And the sandy water clogging the WM is a good warning as the water really looked super clean!

I have a few more random questions:

1) ARC : how many days earlier from departure your crew friends had to come to G. Canaria? Requirement vs convenience ...

2) MPPT solar controller : where did you have them installed?

3) in a previous post, you mentioned you eventually changed the water heater AC back to the main output of the Quattro (as you monitor the battery constantly!). What was driving that change exactly?

4) what did you do with the 2 factory-installed Cristec chargers? Still usable, or disconnected as only the Quattro is used?

5) water heater resistance element: you had the corrosion issue once. Did it happen again and do you have to get a few spare of this resistance?

6) Did you have a iridium external antenna installed? Could not see it !

7) Zspar mast sheaves (again) - did you have them in Aluminum? Any chance to remember who did them? Cannot find someone to make AL and people keep propose Acetal (strong deleon variant as far i understand...)

8) dinghy: i remember a comment saying you'd have like a bit more powerful engine, but what about a slightly larger (~2m), longer (3.60) and especially with flat floor dinghy? Good Value or the HF340 is best.

Thank you !
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Old 06-10-2018, 10:22   #745
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
Hi Dave! I like a lot your videos on Youtube. My wife and me have a lot of fun watching them and it is always inspiring for some new ideas. Now I am sitting in La Rochelle and preparing our new Lagoon 450F. We had a 421 before. One question I have is, I remember one of your posts, it must be quite at the beginning of this thread, were you said that you might in future extend your arch for the solar panels. You would have done it anyway if your wife had not told you that it might not look so nice with a bigger arch behind. So what is your opinion now? Is it just perfect as it is now or would you consider putting more panels on your arch by extending it (for more energy and more protection of sun and rain )?



Pascal


Hi Pascal,

Our pleasure, glad youíre enjoying the vids.

The generator hours / solar panel question is really one of those how long is a piece of string ones. It depends so much on how you want to live. With our lifestyle we currently run the genny for an hour on anchor and 2 hours if sailing.

If we had double the solar then I think we could possibly run the genny for only an hour when sailing and not at all on anchor. These are very difficult to quantify and just based on our average usage. For example, say if you move from bay to bay each day then of course youíre pumping at least an hour of power into the batts from the motor and then can run the genny less.

I think we have a good balance of solar / genny / batteries but at the same time, to be fair to the boss, the boat still looks nice. Our solar frame gives just the right amount of sun and rain protection as it covers the whole back of the boat. With hindsight, if you butt the panels up to each other the rain wonít drip thru the gaps.
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Old 06-10-2018, 10:34   #746
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Quote:
Originally Posted by c-reel View Post
Hi Dave,

Thanks for the new video, always fun. I like how all your videos have a "teck problem solving" part ! And the sandy water clogging the WM is a good warning as the water really looked super clean!



I have a few more random questions:



1) ARC : how many days earlier from departure your crew friends had to come to G. Canaria? Requirement vs convenience ...



2) MPPT solar controller : where did you have them installed?



3) in a previous post, you mentioned you eventually changed the water heater AC back to the main output of the Quattro (as you monitor the battery constantly!). What was driving that change exactly?



4) what did you do with the 2 factory-installed Cristec chargers? Still usable, or disconnected as only the Quattro is used?



5) water heater resistance element: you had the corrosion issue once. Did it happen again and do you have to get a few spare of this resistance?



6) Did you have a iridium external antenna installed? Could not see it !



7) Zspar mast sheaves (again) - did you have them in Aluminum? Any chance to remember who did them? Cannot find someone to make AL and people keep propose Acetal (strong deleon variant as far i understand...)



8) dinghy: i remember a comment saying you'd have like a bit more powerful engine, but what about a slightly larger (~2m), longer (3.60) and especially with flat floor dinghy? Good Value or the HF340 is best.



Thank you !


1) about 3 - 5 days before departure is about right for crew to arrive. Hayley and I got to the boat 2 weeks prior to departure to get everything sorted but youíll want the crew there for provisioning, training and the odd party with the other sailors.

2) all the Victron install was done by the best electricians Gibraltar has to offer.

3). Itís better to be able to heat the water without the need to run the genny. We have plenty of solar to do this.

4. They are still in place and connected but we leave them turned off and only charge from the Quattro. It commonly gives 180amps charging into the batts.

5). The water heater is a common issue so Iíd recommend anyone with a new 450 to check the anode after 6 months.

6). You do not need the external antenna. I take the igo up to the helm or place it by the window in the salon and get signal no probs. I hear itís harder to get a signal in the Pacific but youíll not have a prob crossing the Atlantic.

7). Diagram to follow

8). Our dinghy, the 340 with the Yamaha 20 would be the dream.
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Old 06-10-2018, 10:36   #747
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

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Old 07-10-2018, 02:08   #748
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Yep, I think definitely consider if you want to risk the polyester masthead sheaves.
L450 Mast Sheave replacement?
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Old 07-10-2018, 16:45   #749
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Thanks a lot Dave and Dave!
I got the sheaves spec but so far haven’t found anyone to build them in AL, only strong delrin :-(
Still looking !
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Old 08-10-2018, 12:29   #750
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

The Doyleís riggers here in Auckland arranged them for me. Do you have time to have them made here and couriered? If so PM me for contact details.
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