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Old 02-06-2019, 20:27   #1
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Just looking for your thoughts...L421 3 cabin vs. L450 4 cabin?

I'm still just under 2 years from purchase, but have been looking most at the 421 3 cabin. However, it's crossed my mind to look at and consider a L450 4 bedroom also. Seems to be relatively close in price (450 is still 20-30k USD more). I'm hoping to find something in the 350-365k USD. I can find many pro and cons for each model.


-421 3 cabin is likely nicer condition and less chance of chartered abuse for same price at 4 cabin 450.
- 421 rear deck/cockpit is not very large and the 450 is really nice. My biggest concern is lake of deck space for extended multi year cruising and circumnavigation.
- 421 is sport cockpit which I prefer over a 450 fly bridge for safety. The sport top 450 is too new and not affordable.
-450 holds more water and fuel.
-450 likely sails better. I've only sailed a L440.

-450 has more width and interior volume, but would be in 4 cabins vice 3 in the 421.
-450 one fore-peak bedroom can be made to work room and pantry for food.


Anyone have thoughts on these two models? I won't be considering a 420 or 440.
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Old 06-07-2019, 16:35   #2
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Boat: 2011 Lagoon 450F
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Re: Just looking for your thoughts...L421 3 cabin vs. L450 4 cabin?

We are currently under contract on a L450 Fly. We have been looking at all the same Lagoon models that you are considering... 420, 421, 440 and the 450. Basically, we liked all of them for different reasons. So, why did we offer on the 450? because it was loaded.. in beautiful shape...impeccably maintained.. ticks off all of our "Needs"... and was well priced. So, don't get too attached to any single model. What we have done (over years of good research and climbing on a ton of Cats) is compile a list of boats that work, and you like... add to it a list of "must haves". (this includes both needs and wants).. then watch the market. Having a good broker is a plus. Our broker gave us a head's up about this boat before it got listed.. so we offered before it came available.


As for 3 vs 4 cabins.. you didn't mention what your situation is regarding you being married, or children, or if you expect lots of guests. For us, it's just my husband and I. We want to have friends come.. but never more than a couple or 2. If you haven't been on a 3 cabin or 4 cabin, you really need to go on one. Boat shows are great for that. Yes... you won't be able to afford any of those boats.. but, you get a really good feel for the use of space.. etc. there is a HUGE difference between the space in a master hull vs a guest hull. if it's just you and your wife/husband/partner and a child.. or handful of guests.. no question.. go with a 3 cabin. Otherwise you end up wasting so much space.


I have not had a chance to go on all of the models above.. but I can tell you there are very few cats in that size range that can match the outdoor space to a 450. The newer cats.. (i.e. leopards... fps, etc.. ) have just started adding the front cockpit.. but the Lagoon 450's go back to 2011, ad are one of the first cats that I've found that have that feature. Can't beat that. compare that to a cat without a fly.. without a front cockpit, and you have 3 times the outdoor space. And, as far as the Fly vs sport, and safety being a factor.. I don't actually understand the safety comparison. I feel very safe in the fly... you are at least 15 feet above the water, in the dead center of the boat... And if the weather is rough, you can always sail from inside the cabin. Plus, nothing beats the visibility from the fly. I'm only 5'1" and with the sport models, I can only partially see 2 out of 4 corners.. from a fly bridge I can see the entire boat.. all 4 corners.


There is one potential downside of the fly... it requires a tall boom, which makes it difficult to reach if you need to..

Anyway.. happy to talk further if you have more questions.. but basically... make your list, and keep your options open... wait for the right boat off your list to come available.
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Old 06-07-2019, 17:59   #3
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Re: Just looking for your thoughts...L421 3 cabin vs. L450 4 cabin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlet View Post
We are currently under contract on a L450 Fly. We have been looking at all the same Lagoon models that you are considering... 420, 421, 440 and the 450. Basically, we liked all of them for different reasons. So, why did we offer on the 450? because it was loaded.. in beautiful shape...impeccably maintained.. ticks off all of our "Needs"... and was well priced. So, don't get too attached to any single model. What we have done (over years of good research and climbing on a ton of Cats) is compile a list of boats that work, and you like... add to it a list of "must haves". (this includes both needs and wants).. then watch the market. Having a good broker is a plus. Our broker gave us a head's up about this boat before it got listed.. so we offered before it came available.


As for 3 vs 4 cabins.. you didn't mention what your situation is regarding you being married, or children, or if you expect lots of guests. For us, it's just my husband and I. We want to have friends come.. but never more than a couple or 2. If you haven't been on a 3 cabin or 4 cabin, you really need to go on one. Boat shows are great for that. Yes... you won't be able to afford any of those boats.. but, you get a really good feel for the use of space.. etc. there is a HUGE difference between the space in a master hull vs a guest hull. if it's just you and your wife/husband/partner and a child.. or handful of guests.. no question.. go with a 3 cabin. Otherwise you end up wasting so much space.


I have not had a chance to go on all of the models above.. but I can tell you there are very few cats in that size range that can match the outdoor space to a 450. The newer cats.. (i.e. leopards... fps, etc.. ) have just started adding the front cockpit.. but the Lagoon 450's go back to 2011, ad are one of the first cats that I've found that have that feature. Can't beat that. compare that to a cat without a fly.. without a front cockpit, and you have 3 times the outdoor space. And, as far as the Fly vs sport, and safety being a factor.. I don't actually understand the safety comparison. I feel very safe in the fly... you are at least 15 feet above the water, in the dead center of the boat... And if the weather is rough, you can always sail from inside the cabin. Plus, nothing beats the visibility from the fly. I'm only 5'1" and with the sport models, I can only partially see 2 out of 4 corners.. from a fly bridge I can see the entire boat.. all 4 corners.


There is one potential downside of the fly... it requires a tall boom, which makes it difficult to reach if you need to..

Anyway.. happy to talk further if you have more questions.. but basically... make your list, and keep your options open... wait for the right boat off your list to come available.
Good thoughts, Thanks.

Who was your broker, and where did you buy?
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Old 06-07-2019, 18:39   #4
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Re: Just looking for your thoughts...L421 3 cabin vs. L450 4 cabin?

Thanks for the insight. it will only be my wife and I. Maybe couple times a year realistically will we have no more than 1 or two couples more. I will purchase something for my and my wife's needs, not to accommodate others.

I'm being restricted by price. I'd like to be more than 350k. I don't want to keep working and working and delaying my plans. I'm 50 and wife is 55. I dont' want to sail the world at 70.
We are still, more so my wife, open to the 4 bedroom. She would like a storage/pantry. I wouldn't mind a work shop. However, we both lean towards a 3 room.
The 450 would obviously be a ex-charter due to the price range we are in.
However, we have added a Fountaine Pajot Helia 44 to the list. They came out in 2012, but are also likely to be out of the price range. I've found online 4 bedroom models for about $380k. I don't think i'll find a 3 bedroom. I do love the layout of the Helia 44 though, but my wife doesn't like the lack of cabinets found in the Lagoon 421 and 450.
We are realizing we need several to choose from as only being open to one model is not really going to happen less we wait over a year for the "one" to appear.
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Old 07-07-2019, 09:27   #5
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Re: Just looking for your thoughts...L421 3 cabin vs. L450 4 cabin?

Try sailing both before you choose. I have sailed the 421 and hated it. We had Force 7 winds with one reef in and the boat was really struggling to move, averaging about 6 - 6.5 knots.
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Old 07-07-2019, 12:52   #6
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Re: Just looking for your thoughts...L421 3 cabin vs. L450 4 cabin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_C View Post
Good thoughts, Thanks.

Who was your broker, and where did you buy?
We've had a relationship with Caroline Laviolette (from Catamaran company) for several years and she is facilitating the sale. We still have to go through survey and sea trial but if that goes well we will close at the end of the month. Boat is in Annapolis
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Old 14-07-2019, 05:45   #7
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Re: Just looking for your thoughts...L421 3 cabin vs. L450 4 cabin?

For us I had to prioritize what was absolutely the most important to us-

1. Owner's version. Just can't deal with a tiny bathroom, and I didn't want more than 2 heads.

2. Price-didn't want to take out a loan, so that limited us pretty much to 10-ish year old Lagoon 380's, because I didn't want to go older. We are 49 and 51, with two kids in college-sticking to our budget allows us to get out there now instead of "someday".


3. Model-the L380 had enough headroom, was in our budget, and has a good owner's suite bathroom. Plus they made a lot of them so they're not "exotic", and are generally well thought of. I had to get over the fact that they aren't the prettiest Lagoon out there-the L450F I just swoon over, but it didn't make practical sense for where we were as sailors or people.

4. Location-has to be east coast US or USVI because we're not experienced enough to get it back to the US and some of the rules and buyer protection in some of the islands are really sketchy, and we didn't want to waste a ton of money flying to california to look at boats (which are usually more costly over there anyway).

5. Used-boats are a depreciating asset. Let the first owner take that hit.

Once we'd clarified those parameters with each other, then we focused on finding only that boat, and the best version of that boat.

Took about 3 months, very happy with the purchase and our broker, who didn't show us things that didn't work for us.
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Old 16-07-2019, 21:34   #8
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Re: Just looking for your thoughts...L421 3 cabin vs. L450 4 cabin?

Thanks, but I think the 38/39 are going to be too small for us. I'd like to stick to 41-45 tops.


We have also been looking lately at the early model Helia 44 by Fountaine Pajot. Seems nice. I'm still doing research, but the rear deck and "fly-bridge" style sport top is very ideal for safety and socializing.
Based on floor plan alone, I prefer the Helia over the Lagoon since I can have a fly bridge & sport top. I don't really want a fly bridge because I don't want to be separated from my wife sailing just the two, friends sailing with buddies, in heavy weather, when the autopilot does, etc...but would accept it.
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Old 17-07-2019, 08:58   #9
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Re: Just looking for your thoughts...L421 3 cabin vs. L450 4 cabin?

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Originally Posted by serpa4 View Post
Thanks, but I think the 38/39 are going to be too small for us. I'd like to stick to 41-45 tops..
If you read my post again, I didn't recommend the 380 for you; I was stating my personal creds so you know where I'm coming from with regards to prioritization.

This is why these boards annoy me.
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