410: Installing new motors

[ozsailer]

Hello all,
Well Sunshine gets hauled out of the water tomorrow to be fitted with new 40HP Yanmar motors and SD60 sail drives. When we originally purchased the boat we budgeted for new motors, now 18 months later the old motors were going well but had in excess of 8500 hours when we were offered a deal that was just to good to pass up on the purchase and installation of new motors.
We bought the boat from Lake Macquarie up to Port Stephens (36NM north of us) to be hauled out at a cat friendly yard which will also allow us to stay on board. Our plan is to antifoul the boat while its out as well as tidy up the engine bay and re-sound proof it.
Sue and I have spent the last day and a half preparing the rear engine access hatches adjacent the cockpit for removal. I am so glad we decided to do this early as it took longer than expected. For those of you not familiar with the layout, Lagoon in an excellent design decision allowed for a removable ceiling and cockpit panel above the engines in the aft cabins to make it reasonably straight forward to remove the engines should the need arise.
Removing the ceiling cover is very straight forward, only requiring the removal of several wood screws in the lined panel ensuring that you have some one holding the panel in place when the last couple of screws are taken out to stop it falling and being damaged or broken.
Removing the fibreglass cockpit panel takes a lot more work and a lot of patience. This panel is held in place by self tapping screws every 6 inches accessed from the aft cabin. Once these screws are taken out it is a case of cutting away as much of the Sikaflex that is used to bed this panel in place from the outside. I used a knife, to cut through the majority of the external sika. A box cutter knife is really required to be able to cut right through the sika to the base of the supporting fibreglass frame.
Having done this then then need to go back into the cabin berth and with a metal scraper start in one corner and very gently tap into the sika till you touch the outside edge of the cockpit lip. It appears that when this was first put in place they filled the void with ski then screwed the panel down as tight as possible. This leaves really no room to get a knife in to break the sika seal and you need to force the metal scraper between the removable cockpit cover and the room fibreglass panel. Its then a case of doing this an inch at a time to break the ski seal. Don't rush as you will end up breaking the fibreglass lip. Using this process I was able to start at the narrowest end and slowly break the sika seal till I could get a thin wedge under one edge. Once I was able to get a thin wedge under an edge it became easier as the wedge put slight pressure on the cockpit panel which made it easier to tap the metal scraper along the edge of the panel. At times you want rush but this needs to be resisted at all costs as you will damage something. .
Lagoon must use at least a whole large tube of Sika sticking these panels in place so it takes a fair effort to get them out. There are two timber panels that will have to be cut that are used to support the internal roof but with careful cutting they should be able to be used again.
One of the annoying things I did find that on one of the panels Lagoon had covered up three of the securing screws with the timber supports. I did not notice this till I was tapping the paint scraper down the Sika line and came to a stop. Rather than cut the timber I was able to estimate with some accuracy where the screws were located and drilled large enough holes through the timber for me to use a screwdriver through the hole and undo the screws.
I have taken photos of what I got up and will post some as soon as I remember where I put the camera .


Greg, Sue and Bella the sea dog
SV Sunshine Lagoon 410 S2
Lake Macquarie
New South Wales
Oz

[darylat8750]

I don't know if there is room for it in this instance and too late for you now but I've used an oscillating tool like a Fein to be a major help in removing glued or caulked in components.

[gspeak]

Hi Greg,
Am interested in how well this replacement goes for you. Will you have to replace the old moulded fibreglass engine/sail drive beds to accommodate the new motors/sail drives?

Keep us informed.

Dave

[ozsailer]

Daryl, I had a oscilating power tool on board but forgot to bring the proper attachment. A blunt cutting tool still cut into the fibreglass due to the tight bond but I think that the proper tool would have worked well once you broke the initial seal.

Hi Dave,
We do not have to do any mods what so ever to the engine bed or sail drive hole. Old motor out new model in but there is an adapter plate for the motor to the sail drive but does not involve doing anything structural to the boat. The only thing that is required is making the exhaust hole larger going from 50mm to 75mm in diameter. The local shipwright is doing that work tomorrow.
Big day tomorrow and then over the weekend. Fingers crossed for the weather to stay good.

Greg and Sue

[rabbi]

We owned a 410 back in 2011 and had one engine taken out for rebuilt. As you have noticed the biggest effort is in the preparation.
The only difference was that our hull panels were not embedded in Sika but some sort of marine silikone. Ours was hull 34 built in 1999. Cleaning the edges for re-bedding also became a tedious job.
We were able to reuse the cut-out wooden supports, screwed to the parts that were still in place and when finished you couldn't see that we ever had the ceiling taken off.

Good luck on the weather. Buy some really good tape for sealing the hull panels in case it does rain.

[ozsailer]

Well as promised I have worked out how to move photos on CF using my Mac. Big breakthrough for this techno challenged sailer.
The photos below depicts the port aft cabin ceiling removed revealing the section to be removed for engine access to the cockpit. Note the timber ceiling supports that cross the access point. I ended up cutting these out with a oscilating tool, marking the required cutting depth with electrical tape on the cutter.



The second photo reveals the SIKA seal having been cracked using a very thin metal paint scraper that was used to cut into the corner of the panel between the supporting panel and removable panel. A lot of care is required here to ensure that you place the scraper between the two layers and not break the fibreglass mouldings themselves.



The third photo reveals how I used wedges to keep pressure on the sika joint to allow easier cutting of the Sika as I worked the paint scraper down the joint. While I did not have proper wedges for the job, screwdrivers made an admirable replacement. The trick here was not to place to much pressure on the wedges when trying to open the seal. To much pressure may see you damage the panel or fibreglass substrate.



Finally after a lot of patience and good fortune the cockpit panel is free of its Sika prison. Lots of releif on our part. Dam there was a lot of Sika in there.






The reward - The motors came out today with no drama's. We had to take the cover off the bimini but the motors fit straight through the gap.





The end result, one really dirty bilge and engine bay to clean out over the weekend. Shouldn't all that oil in the bilge been in my motor




Greg, Sue and Bella the sea Dog
Sunshine
Lagoon 410S2

[feebs]

Hi Ozsailer,

Just wandering which slip you are using in Nelson Bay & have you been happy with their support?

Cheers Brett

PS Great job & thanks for sharing your experience.

[ozsailer]

Hi Bret,
we are using Cove Marinen at the southern end of Pt Stephens to slip the boat and store on the hard while we do the engine changeover. So far we have been extremely happy with the service. I had heard differing opinions on the management of the facility but to date I can only applaud the management here. Here in Australia the EPA is coming down fairly hard on haul out facilities here in OZ. From what I can see Marine Cove has taken on a very environmentally friendly approach. Yes they have strict rules in place in regard to drop sheets under your boat while antifouling, no dry sanding what so ever of antifoul and you have to wear a Hi Vis vest due to OHS laws.
We have found none of these regulations a burden and applaud the management for looking to the future to ensure we continue to have facilities were we can work on our boats and a safe working enviroment.
Probably the main issue is that the location is away from a lot of mainstream areas but there is a good hardware only a ten minute drive away and the on site shop is not bad for those little things you need like sandpaper and paint. One of the big plus's is that you can stay on your boat overnight which is a real bonus. There are showers and toilets here and the outlook is nothing to be sneezed at. We are just watching the sunset now and its spectacular.
Best recommendation, we would we return. Yep without a second thought, just make sure you have all your gear with you or access to a car.


Greg and Sue
SV Sunshine

[deblen]

Suggest you use butyl tape instead of Sika when re-installing panels/hatches.

[ozsailer]

Ta,
good point, have to try and source Butyl Tape here in oz.

[rabbi]

At least on our boat the layup-side of the panel that goes into the hole was far too rough. Butyl tape would most likely not create a watertight seal. Our panel was full of old silicone for the factory installation and even butyl would not really stick to it.

We used silicone for re-bedding. Not the cheapo $1 silicone but the stuff used for commercial saltwater swimming pools, including appropriate cleaner and primer. I had it shipped from home as I couldn't source it in Spain.

[Sailingcouple13]

you are going to love the new sd60, they are greatly improved. Quiter and easier to change oil while in the water. Note they use oil, not heavy gear lube. Which is so much easier to extract from the tube which now has an extension up to the top of the drive, so no more messy oil all over the drive when removing the plug..

Sent from my SM-G900P using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[deblen]

Originally Posted by rabbi

At least on our boat the layup-side of the panel that goes into the hole was far too rough. Butyl tape would most likely not create a watertight seal. Our panel was full of old silicone for the factory installation and even butyl would not really stick to it.

We used silicone for re-bedding. Not the cheapo $1 silicone but the stuff used for commercial saltwater swimming pools, including appropriate cleaner and primer. I had it shipped from home as I couldn't source it in Spain.

I really don't think you have to worry about butyl tape "sticking". The benefit is that it doesn't stick like Sika,etc. It is primarily used to set auto windshields in,usually without any mechanical fasteners.
Cheers/Len

[Sid at SailAway]

Here's where I buy my butyl tape. Great stuff and the purchase helps support a great informative website. Plus, he's a forum member..

***Buy Bed-It Butyl Tape*** Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by deblen

I really don't think you have to worry about butyl tape "sticking". The benefit is that it doesn't stick like Sika,etc. It is primarily used to set auto windshields in,usually without any mechanical fasteners.
Cheers/Len

My point is: If it doesn't stick to the panel it won't provide a proper seal.

in our 410 the panel's bottom was pretty rough, an untreated fibreglass layup. Too many little bumps, voids and old silicone to make for a proper seal using butyl.
Our panel needed at least some grinding as preparation.
We just used good silicone at a few spots to glue the panel into place and then did a proper silicone seal from the outside. That should be much easier to cut open next time.

Maybe butyl will work, but from my experience using it at home it doubt so. Good silicon or sikaflex will do the job for sure so why take any chances.