Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-09-2015, 12:31   #16
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,282
Re: How Much Can We Take?

I would end to agree. The Lagoons that we see are certainly not lacking for amenities and dont appear to be that low in the water. I think that something is seriously amiss with the figures. Whilst Lagoons do not figure on my radar there is no denying that they are likely the most common cruising cat that we see and the owners rarely have anything nasty to report.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapanui View Post
The variable load for the lagoon 420 seems very low here is the extract from the manual for our FP Athena 38
Maximum load displacement: 7.8 t
Maximum load: 2.470 t
(weight that can be added to the standard craft)
broken down as follows:
- water tanks - full 360 kg
- fuel tanks - full 170 kg
- 8-person crew 600 kg
- safety equipment (for 8 people) 350 kg
- provisions (2.5 kg/pers/day) 2.5*8*15=300kg
- options + miscellaneous 690 kg

Given that the Athena is much shorter with narrower hulls I suspect the quoted figure for the Lagoon is not correct at less than half that of the Athena
__________________

__________________
Bulawayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 12:37   #17
Moderator
 
carstenb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Copenhagen
Boat: Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3
Posts: 4,936
Images: 1
Re: How Much Can We Take?

One issue unnmentioned here is that you will also need to make sure you are stowing all this weight balanced.

Our Sunfast has a wieght limit of 2600kg I've spent a lot of time fuguring weights (we are not a family of five-only two) and figuring out how to store it all while keeping the boat in balance.

However much you take - you'll find it is too much. Figure the basics, yourselves and the equipment you need for the trip. What's left is what you can use for toys (for both adults and kids)
__________________

__________________
I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted - Elmore Leonard
carstenb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 14:28   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 17
Re: How Much Can We Take?

Now, I have never sailed a cruising cat before, but my understanding is you are suppose to go faster: that's the point, along with shallow draft and sailing flat.
But because you can put so much stuff on these boats it is easy to de-stabilize: weight distribution is very important.

I read the PDF "manual" on the lagoon 42 and did the math. They don't allow much weight until they impose the "not responsible" statement (5330lbs). The option list does not amount to an unreasonable amount of stuff that a family would want sailing around the world. I'm sure some items might be questionable but then again there were no back up items or spares listed; what about tools?

My understanding is when these twin hulled beast become unable to sail due to weight they are dangerous in adverse conditions. They do not respond ... leaving you left to the whims of the sea until you're broad sided by a huge breaking sea: as they say, they are just as stable upside down as upside right. In addition, it takes a very experienced sailor to handle these machines ... knowing what can and cannot be done. I know some muti-hull sailors and they a very experienced racers of these machines and command a good deal of respect in the sailing community.

I can see the attraction for sailing such vessels in the Carib. with all the skinny water and shelters to duck into but I don't think a trip around the world for a young family is a good idea.

I would buy an older bigger true blue water boat for the same money. A 65 footer full keel boat will be much more comfortable, forgiving and safer in 50 plus knts and 30 ft seas than any lagoon 42. And it will likely be faster giving the tendency to over load the cats.

Don't get me wrong, I think multi-hulls are cool, but they have to be fast in order to be safe. The idea is to out run or out maneuver storms. On the other hand too fast means pitch poling ... not to mention the two hulls on two different wave sets, ugh the list goes on.

With a young family ...safety first
__________________
T-Birder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 16:04   #19
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 6,711
Re: How Much Can We Take?

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Birder View Post
Now, I have never sailed a cruising cat before,
....

I would buy an older bigger true blue water boat for the same money.
...
Sigh! There's always one in every cat oriented thread
__________________
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 16:45   #20
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Anacortes
Boat: previous - Whitby 42 new - Goldenwave 44
Posts: 1,735
Re: How Much Can We Take?

Don't forget tools and spares. They add up QUICK! Oh - and beer and booze. Your biggest problem will be where to store all the TP you'll need for five.
__________________
exMaggieDrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 16:56   #21
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Re: How Much Can We Take?

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Birder View Post
Now, I have never sailed a cruising cat before, but my understanding is you are suppose to go faster: that's the point, along with shallow draft and sailing flat.
But because you can put so much stuff on these boats it is easy to de-stabilize: weight distribution is very important.

I read the PDF "manual" on the lagoon 42 and did the math. They don't allow much weight until they impose the "not responsible" statement (5330lbs). The option list does not amount to an unreasonable amount of stuff that a family would want sailing around the world. I'm sure some items might be questionable but then again there were no back up items or spares listed; what about tools?

My understanding is when these twin hulled beast become unable to sail due to weight they are dangerous in adverse conditions. They do not respond ... leaving you left to the whims of the sea until you're broad sided by a huge breaking sea: as they say, they are just as stable upside down as upside right. In addition, it takes a very experienced sailor to handle these machines ... knowing what can and cannot be done. I know some muti-hull sailors and they a very experienced racers of these machines and command a good deal of respect in the sailing community.

I can see the attraction for sailing such vessels in the Carib. with all the skinny water and shelters to duck into but I don't think a trip around the world for a young family is a good idea.

I would buy an older bigger true blue water boat for the same money. A 65 footer full keel boat will be much more comfortable, forgiving and safer in 50 plus knts and 30 ft seas than any lagoon 42. And it will likely be faster giving the tendency to over load the cats.

Don't get me wrong, I think multi-hulls are cool, but they have to be fast in order to be safe. The idea is to out run or out maneuver storms. On the other hand too fast means pitch poling ... not to mention the two hulls on two different wave sets, ugh the list goes on.

With a young family ...safety first
My understanding is you have absolutely zero experience with cruising catamarans. Therefore I understand that I should take whatever you say with a grain of salt as you have no understanding of cruising catamarans.
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 16:59   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 17
Re: How Much Can We Take?

Hey, I said I respect multi-hull sailors, because it takes a great deal of skill to sail these vessels. The nature of which is akin to driving a high performance sports car.

I have sail cats before, just not cruising cats and they are great fun but not particularly forgiving of mistakes.

And given these factors and the safety for one's family, I would opt for a monohull with a defined righting moment and the ability to right itself, god forbid.

Notice I did not suggest an "open 60" monohull ... I believe a clean predictable motion of a full keel boat with reasonable shoulders will provide for more comfort and less strenuous affect on the crew. There is nothing worse than arriving at your destination feeling like you've been beat up by your boat and need to sleep for a week.

This goes for monohulls as well ... typically high center of gravity issues ... this is attributed to the length to beam ratio coupled with free board: hence the further away from the center you are the more effort it takes to do anything. The center is neutral: elementary physics my
__________________
T-Birder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 17:02   #23
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,282
Re: How Much Can We Take?

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Birder View Post
Now, I have never sailed a cruising cat before, but my understanding is you are suppose to go faster: that's the point, along with shallow draft and sailing flat.
But because you can put so much stuff on these boats it is easy to de-stabilize: weight distribution is very important.

I read the PDF "manual" on the lagoon 42 and did the math. They don't allow much weight until they impose the "not responsible" statement (5330lbs). The option list does not amount to an unreasonable amount of stuff that a family would want sailing around the world. I'm sure some items might be questionable but then again there were no back up items or spares listed; what about tools?

My understanding is when these twin hulled beast become unable to sail due to weight they are dangerous in adverse conditions. They do not respond ... leaving you left to the whims of the sea until you're broad sided by a huge breaking sea: as they say, they are just as stable upside down as upside right. In addition, it takes a very experienced sailor to handle these machines ... knowing what can and cannot be done. I know some muti-hull sailors and they a very experienced racers of these machines and command a good deal of respect in the sailing community.

I can see the attraction for sailing such vessels in the Carib. with all the skinny water and shelters to duck into but I don't think a trip around the world for a young family is a good idea.

I would buy an older bigger true blue water boat for the same money. A 65 footer full keel boat will be much more comfortable, forgiving and safer in 50 plus knts and 30 ft seas than any lagoon 42. And it will likely be faster giving the tendency to over load the cats.

Don't get me wrong, I think multi-hulls are cool, but they have to be fast in order to be safe. The idea is to out run or out maneuver storms. On the other hand too fast means pitch poling ... not to mention the two hulls on two different wave sets, ugh the list goes on.

With a young family ...safety first
My four children were born aboard our cats. To be frank, we have never weighed anything on board. If the boats starts to look low in the water we shall then start to consider why and probably tell the kids to jump overboard and swim behind.
On many biggish cats you would have to seriousy load them to make them so slow and unmanagable.
In our many years on cats, and monohulls before that, we have only felt overloaded after provisioning for many months and taking on extra crew with their gear.
__________________
Bulawayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 17:08   #24
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cruising Indian Ocean / Red Sea - home is Zimbabwe
Boat: V45
Posts: 1,282
Re: How Much Can We Take?

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Birder View Post
Hey, I said I respect multi-hull sailors, because it takes a great deal of skill to sail these vessels. The nature of which is akin to driving a high performance sports car.

I have sail cats before, just not cruising cats and they are great fun but not particularly forgiving of mistakes.

And given these factors and the safety for one's family, I would opt for a monohull with a defined righting moment and the ability to right itself, god forbid.

Notice I did not suggest an "open 60" monohull ... I believe a clean predictable motion of a full keel boat with reasonable shoulders will provide for more comfort and less strenuous affect on the crew. There is nothing worse than arriving at your destination feeling like you've been beat up by your boat and need to sleep for a week.

This goes for monohulls as well ... typically high center of gravity issues ... this is attributed to the length to beam ratio coupled with free board: hence the further away from the center you are the more effort it takes to do anything. The center is neutral: elementary physics my
.....my dear Watson?
Please dont start that debate. We all know the rhetoric about how multihulls always tip over just as we also know that multihullers prefer a capsized boat in preference to a monohull boat that self rights as she settles on the sea bed alongside the Titanic.
Both types of boats have their advantages/disadvantages and each to their own.
__________________
Bulawayo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 17:15   #25
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Re: How Much Can We Take?

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Birder View Post
Hey, I said I respect multi-hull sailors, because it takes a great deal of skill to sail these vessels. The nature of which is akin to driving a high performance sports car.

I have sail cats before, just not cruising cats and they are great fun but not particularly forgiving of mistakes.

And given these factors and the safety for one's family, I would opt for a monohull with a defined righting moment and the ability to right itself, god forbid.

Notice I did not suggest an "open 60" monohull ... I believe a clean predictable motion of a full keel boat with reasonable shoulders will provide for more comfort and less strenuous affect on the crew. There is nothing worse than arriving at your destination feeling like you've been beat up by your boat and need to sleep for a week.

This goes for monohulls as well ... typically high center of gravity issues ... this is attributed to the length to beam ratio coupled with free board: hence the further away from the center you are the more effort it takes to do anything. The center is neutral: elementary physics my
Now your stating that even though you've never sailed a cruising cat it takes great skill and is akin to driving a high performance sport car. You know that because......?
What kind of cats have you sailed? I grew up sailing a sunfish but I don't think that cruising monohulls flip over or have to be sailed as carefully as a sunfish.
And as far as motion? I believe it's give or take, mono or multi.
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 17:25   #26
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 6,711
Re: How Much Can We Take?

My bad. I should have kept quiet
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	dontfeed.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	14.9 KB
ID:	109913  
__________________
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 17:43   #27
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,352
Re: How Much Can We Take?

Stuff adds up fast. You think you are being weight careful but.......
My Passport 47 mono was down 5" on the waterline loaded. The Lagoon 42 (TPI) went down only 1.5" when we moved everything from the Passport to the Lagoon.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 17:55   #28
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Re: How Much Can We Take?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Stuff adds up fast. You think you are being weight careful but.......
My Passport 47 mono was down 5" on the waterline loaded. The Lagoon 42 (TPI) went down only 1.5" when we moved everything from the Passport to the Lagoon.

When we pulled all our stuff of our Catfisher 32 catamaran the waterline rose about 5-6 inches. When we put all that stuff on our new to us Cherokee 35 catamaran the waterline dropped about 2 inches. Monos or multis, some are more weight sensitive than others!


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 18:04   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 17
Re: How Much Can We Take?

Ai-Ya!! It appears I have awoken the the beast ... to multi-hull or not to multi-hull.

I have sailed Hobbie cats as well as F27's ... great fun.

Heck, I don't know what to say ... the Titanic hit an ice burg on a calm night ... they were lucky. What if it had been a North Atlantic storm ... well, I don't think we would have the movie.

I'm not dissing multi-hulls ... everything I said is true. The physical dynamics of the boats are what they are because of two hulls. And I don't wish to get into the rotation attributes on the "x", "y" plain due to weight distribution and the loads encountered and the inability to define the fulcrum for said loads to act about and on and on ...

I simply feel that a young family should keep it simple ... that's all.

I presume most people here have watched the America's Cup ... well, these are similar machines on sterio's ... but the same principles apply.

Safety First
__________________
T-Birder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-09-2015, 18:32   #30
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 3,654
Re: How Much Can We Take?

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Birder View Post
Ai-Ya!! It appears I have awoken the the beast ... to multi-hull or not to multi-hull.



I have sailed Hobbie cats as well as F27's ... great fun.



Heck, I don't know what to say ... the Titanic hit an ice burg on a calm night ... they were lucky. What if it had been a North Atlantic storm ... well, I don't think we would have the movie.



I'm not dissing multi-hulls ... everything I said is true. The physical dynamics of the boats are what they are because of two hulls. And I don't wish to get into the rotation attributes on the "x", "y" plain due to weight distribution and the loads encountered and the inability to define the fulcrum for said loads to act about and on and on ...



I simply feel that a young family should keep it simple ... that's all.



I presume most people here have watched the America's Cup ... well, these are similar machines on sterio's ... but the same principles apply.



Safety First

You have just proven you have no knowledge of cruising multis. Stick to the monohulls and I'm sure you will feel safe.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can't take much more of this global warming Tbrad General Sailing Forum 210 08-01-2014 19:48
How to Take Care of the Oceans Which Take Care of Us . . . SarasotaYacht Seamanship & Boat Handling 1 04-11-2011 11:31



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:10.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.