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Old 21-03-2014, 21:21   #1
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Getting a 440 to sail faster

Hi, I have put an offer to purchase a 2007 Lagoon 440and I am thinking of what type of head sail I can buy to make the increase the speed any ideas maybe put a bow-spit say 4ft long and furling genoa large enough to get an extra couple of KTS a sail-maker told me he could make a headsail that would work down wind and also go to windward
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Old 22-03-2014, 06:46   #2
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Hi, I have put an offer to purchase a 2007 Lagoon 440and I am thinking of what type of head sail I can buy to make the increase the speed any ideas maybe put a bow-spit say 4ft long and furling genoa large enough to get an extra couple of KTS a sail-maker told me he could make a headsail that would work down wind and also go to windward
regards Alan
What you want is a retractable or folding sprit more on the order of 6 to 8ft . Check out the single pole retractable on the Mainecat. I've also seen several A frame style folders mounted on the forward cross beam that work well.

Whatever pole or aframe you get, it will have to be fairly substantial. The aframe on my friend's Edel 35 is made of 3" tubing with a heavy wall thickness. Likewise the mounts need to be very strong. You want it strong enough that sticking it into a wave won't rip it off and still weak enough that it will break before damaging the boat.

Proper rigging to hull bows will provide enough hold-down force to counter luff tension.

No sail will work upwind and down unless you're sailing at AC 72 speeds. Get a roller furling genaker or fat genoa for off wind work and roll it up to go upwind with a normal and fairly flat jib.

On a very narrow range of reaching attack angles my friend's Edel can carry both the gennaker and a genoa.
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Old 22-03-2014, 07:20   #3
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Re: Getting a 440 to sail faster

The easiest way to add a knot of sailing speed is to invest in folding props.

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Old 22-03-2014, 08:16   #4
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Re: Getting a 440 to sail faster

and reduse weigth, trim the rig. and the sails. it the cat is loaded, then no need to spend a lot of money on new sails.
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Old 22-03-2014, 09:11   #5
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Re: Getting a 440 to sail faster

We have a Gennaker on a short factory installed sprit on our L450. In the right wind conditions this is a great sail and probably adds a knot or more over the Genoa. Here is a photo. Click image for larger version

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Old 22-03-2014, 22:39   #6
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Re: Getting a 440 to sail faster

I'd agree with comments above. Reducing drag is very important and relatively cheap.

I installed Autostream folding 3 blade props, which add about 1 kt.
As for weight, less is best and it is very easy to lug around lots of stuff you rearely need. Generally, I carry no more than 1/3 to 1/2 fuel load - there's 400kg. unless heading off shore, I generally do the same with water - another 600kg, in total 1000kg or an 8% reduction in displacement just from unneccessary fluids. Some 440's I seen, sit al least 3 inches lower in the water than mine = significant increased wetted surface area and drag.

When I was racing Porches, 50kg weight reduction equalled 750HP in terms of improved lap times. One strategy was very cheap, the other very expensive....

As for "HP" when sailing, it is no different. Laminates are expensive with shortish life and in the context of the boats overall weight and hull design, are going to offer only very minor gains in speed over new dacron or hydranet. Look out there at "fast boats" and they will be 2/3 the weight, with narrow hulls optimized for drag and not for payload or hull accommodations. Perhaps it is in rather light conditions, say 5-8kts of TWS, when the boat is at distinct disadvantage with its weight, when a Code 0, Screecher, of Gennaker sheeted very tight may well give you a knot ot two advantage to windward.

Bang for buck = folding props + vigilant and aggressive attention to weight.

You can increase the roach on the main a little going from 80sqm std to 83-85sqm, but the boat is already main sail dominant due to the forward mast position. With a relatively small genoa (42sqm) and mid strength winds, you increase drag because of weather helm. In fact early reefing of the main (15kts as opposed to reccommended 20kts) is a great idea because you significantly reduce drag with better sail balance and increase speed. Keep in mind however, that the hull design creates limits. Optimizing sails, trim, drag and wieght might give you 10 kts instead of 8kts, but its never going to give you 12-14 at a given wind envelope.
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Old 23-03-2014, 00:13   #7
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Re: Getting a 440 to sail faster

[QUOTE=2Wind;1499577]
When I was racing Porches, 50kg weight reduction equalled 750HP in terms of improved lap times. One strategy was very cheap, the other very expensive....

QUOTE]

That should have been 75HP, not 750!
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Old 23-03-2014, 01:08   #8
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Re: Getting a 440 to sail faster

Have you read the posts at:
Code Zero reaching asil
Nice analysis of downwind sails.
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Old 24-03-2014, 04:21   #9
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Re: Getting a 440 to sail faster

Great info for someone just turning to the dark side.
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Old 24-03-2014, 04:22   #10
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Re: Getting a 440 to sail faster

[QUOTE=2Wind;1499592]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Wind View Post
When I was racing Porches, 50kg weight reduction equalled 750HP in terms of improved lap times. One strategy was very cheap, the other very expensive....

QUOTE]

That should have been 75HP, not 750!
Thought that must be a typo
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Old 24-03-2014, 09:18   #11
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Re: Getting a 440 to sail faster

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and reduce weigth, trim the rig and the sails. if the cat is heavily loaded, then no need to spend a lot of money on new sails.
And folding props and a clean bottom also - before buying new sails
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Old 31-03-2014, 01:25   #12
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Re: Getting a 440 to sail faster

by my experiences, the best way is to buy a gennaker,
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Old 31-03-2014, 02:48   #13
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Re: Getting a 440 to sail faster

Like others have said the best return on investment for speed is folding or feathering props. Getting an additional 2 knots from adding a larger foresail is day dreaming in my opinion.
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Old 31-03-2014, 02:53   #14
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Re: Getting a 440 to sail faster

What about outboards that lift the entire prop out of the water and keep the engines out of the living spaces? Even cheaper and more effective, no?
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Old 31-03-2014, 06:17   #15
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Re: Getting a 440 to sail faster

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What about outboards that lift the entire prop out of the water and keep the engines out of the living spaces? Even cheaper and more effective, no?
It reduces drag and weight, that's for sure, but not an option on a Lagoon 440 as per the OP's purchase. But an option no doubt on a custom design as some here will testify e.g. "44 Cruising Catamaran". Still, the fastest "cruising" cats out there (Gunboats/Schionning G Force 15 etc) generally come with light weight diesel/sail drives, no doubt for the perceived reliability and their efficiency, esp. in a big sea, achieving their speed through weight control and alternate drag reduction strategies. On a racing cat, it would be another story of course.
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