450: faster mainsail dropping? Reefing mod?

[Pascals Wager]

The long gap between the luff cars allows the main catch wind when lowering. I was considering intermediate cars, at least two to be attached to my main. Any one done this or have thoughts on this idea. As for the reefing lines I now just toss them in the lazy bag.

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[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Houston450

Greetings 450 owners. Just took delivery of a '15 450 in Houston. Great boat as we all know, however I am looking for some help.

We have a square top main that often gets tangled in the lazy jacks. I'm ok with the up down to clear it unless someone knows of a trick releasing the lazys or using the topping lift. The part I need help with are the reeling lines (3) not running clean and fast. I'm thinking of smaller lines without giving up strength nor wearability. Also considering not taking up the slack when coming down.

Speaking of coming down, the main doesn't like to drop as quickly as I had hoped. It often requires the crew to go up with a boat hook to pull it down. Fine for nice weather, but dangerous in big breeze or storms. Any advice?

Thanks in advance!

Chris

For droping the mainsail in a fuzzz, the answer? ANTAL.. quite expensive..

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by Oliver L.

Hi Chris,

not sure about your reefing lines since we never pull these in when lowering the main - we just put them into the lazy bag upon closing.

As to the main not coming down, that is a routine maintenance thing. Use Teflon spray on the rollers whenever it starts to get sticky. We were told to never use WD40 there, so I am relaying this without knowing the exact reason.

Have fun...

Oliver

Bad advice, i tell you why,, any kind of WD or teflon or whatever lubricant repellent spray in the batten cars and the torlon balls start to stop spin evenly inside of the races,, i see thousands of torlon balls toasted by one side and the other in fine shape, fresh water and soap, thats all.... cheers.

[leftbrainstuff]

Originally Posted by Oliver L.

Hi Chris,

not sure about your reefing lines since we never pull these in when lowering the main - we just put them into the lazy bag upon closing.

As to the main not coming down, that is a routine maintenance thing. Use Teflon spray on the rollers whenever it starts to get sticky. We were told to never use WD40 there, so I am relaying this without knowing the exact reason.

Have fun...

Oliver

WD40 leaves an oily residue which will attract grit. Grit causes wear. Same applies to any similar product.

Use something like Mclube. A dry film teflon based lubricant. Ideal for sail tracks.

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[caymancat]

We were told that part of the problem is that the top lines of the lazy jacks are generally fitted on the spreaders too close to the mast. If you move the connections closer to the ends of the spreaders, the lazy jacks are more open and its easier to get the sail down.

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by caymancat

We were told that part of the problem is that the top lines of the lazy jacks are generally fitted on the spreaders too close to the mast. If you move the connections closer to the ends of the spreaders, the lazy jacks are more open and its easier to get the sail down.

I do not think the lazy is an issue when lowering the sails (if keeping properly into the wind).
However, opening the setup on top may help when raising mainsail.

[Houston450]

Originally Posted by boom23

If you loosen the mainsheet and raise/drop the mainsail slowly, you should be OK. I just throw the reef lines in the lazy bag after the sail is lowered. You can also loosen the lazy bag a little, but we did not find this necessary.

On a different note, if you plan to do extended cruising, change your reefing lines. We've had the factory first reef line break on two different occasions (at the low friction ring by the leech) and the mainsail ripped the lazy bag both times. It was fun trying to control the mainsail in bad weather. I finally learned and got better quality lines in NZ.

Keep an eye on the reef lines. Keep loosening/tightening them to change the stress points. Make sure they do not chafe where they enter the boom by the mast. Use better lines.

You'll enjoy the L450. We love ours.

I want to add the blocks to the receding lines at the sails. I also want to change the reefing lines to a smaller size with same strength and reliability. Any advice on brand and siz of lines? Harken blocks to match new size line.

Thanks!

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Houston450

I want to add the blocks to the receding lines at the sails. I also want to change the reefing lines to a smaller size with same strength and reliability. Any advice on brand and siz of lines? Harken blocks to match new size line.

Thanks!

Attach a low friction ring to each clew reef point (ditto at the tacks), they'll lower the effort needed to pull in the reef lines. Another option at the clews is the Antal web-on clew reefing blocks http://antal.it/ENG/73_reef_blocks_en Or you can use blocks that attach with Spectra. And or, make your own, using small diameter, high load sheaves, & aluminum plate.Particularly if you’re a DIY guy, & have easy access to an anodizing tank.

For your reefing lines, use bare Spectra/Dyneema for everything but the sections that are on the winch or in your stoppers. I’d suggest 8mm at a minimum, although 10mm would be better. And you can make short, replicable pendants out of Spectra, for the high chafe sections of your reefing lines. Such as where they pass through the clew, & the sheaves at the end of the boom. Connecting them to the reef lines proper in the boom, which run back to the winches. As it’s much cheaper to replace a short section of Spectra when it gets worn, than the entire reefing line.

Also, consider painting them with Maxi Jacket II, or RP25 to increase their chafe & UV resistance. And you can add Spectra chafe covers as well. The coatings add from 30-50% to the life of the lines.

When you drop your main, don't take in the slack in your reefing lines. And you might also consider adding a downhaul to your main to assist in pulling it down, it's a commonly added bit of kit on cats with square top mains. Which you'll find, if you do a search on them, & how best to rig them.

[sbaydreamer]

I have been reading this thread with intresst- I always have some problem with raising my main on my 450!

Just to much friction everywhere,!

So: change the ring for the reefing lines to blocks?
Smaller size ropes for the reefing lines? Size?

About the slack on the reefing lines when you drop the sail- explain- why not collect ithem when lowering the sail? What's the alternative? Just trough it in the bag afterwards?

Happy for replies

[sbaydreamer]

Originally Posted by PaulinOz

I brought the lazy jacks back to the helm via 2 new blocks at base of mast plus existing deck hardware.





Plus 2 new clutches at helm.



Add a piece of shot chord each side to the lazy jacks from where the 2 rear lines join at the block, down to attachment on sail bag for second line back
from mast.



When raising sail just be couple of degrees off head to wind and release the lazy jack on the side the boom is favoring. (easy to do as it is now controlled from helm.) The shot chord pulls the lazy jack lines down to the boom when lazy jack line on that side is eased, raise main sail a lot more easier than keep going up an down trying to avoid lazy jacks.

When dropping do not pull in reef lines leave out. If you drop the Main with reef in, I pull the slack back through to end of boom and mast prior to closing boom bag so it is ready to raise fully next time.

Having 2 marks on each reef line at the clutch to know when it is all out and slack and also pulled in to the correct point for the reef when employed also helps.

Sorry for my English - shot cord? Explain

[sbaydreamer]

Originally Posted by sbaydreamer

Sorry for my English - shot cord? Explain

Bungy cord?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Pascals Wager

The long gap between the luff cars allows the main catch wind when lowering. I was considering intermediate cars, at least two to be attached to my main. Any one done this or have thoughts on this idea. As for the reefing lines I now just toss them in the lazy bag.

Sent from my SM-T719 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

The problem with too many cars is the stack ends up really tall when reefing etc.

[davedindubai]

Shot cord = weighted cord. As in lead shot. It will allow the lines to drop out of the way

[sbaydreamer]

Copy copy

[aquadreams]

Originally Posted by sbaydreamer

Bungy cord?

Yes bungy cord. I believe the term is "shock cord", designed to absorb shock.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungee_cord