Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-04-2014, 06:32   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1
Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

I will acquire a L450 in the next coming year (new or 2 /3 years) to navigate in Mediterranean.

I am questioning about Engine throttle and rudder joystick at Nav station.

Since these options are expensive on a new boat, are these options worth ?
In which circumstances these can they be used ?

Thanks in advance.
__________________

__________________
FCourtois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2014, 16:09   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 28
Re: Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

I find the joystick very useful specialty in coastal Med with lot of traffic. You temp. correct the course (I'm 98% on AP) for some sudden obstacles, as fishing boats, flotillas ... while you are in saloon, cooking, socializing or hiding from the sun...
Throttle is useless. If you are motoring (which you will do in Med a lot ) and you have situation that need to alter the speed, you will probably need to run to the helm.
__________________

__________________
hefestus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2014, 04:57   #3
Registered User
 
DavefromNZ's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: NZ
Boat: Lagoon 450
Posts: 389
Re: Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

I wouldn't bother with the joystick. The reason is I find it very unreliable. I.e. Sometimes the button does not work and take over control when pressed. Usually that is within seconds to dodge a crayfish pot buoy or log. I fitted the raymarine remote and an E7D chart plotter inside and now spend most of the trip inside socializing and keeping out of the weather, with full steerage control.
__________________
DavefromNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-04-2014, 05:06   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
Emerald Sea's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Live-aboard Cruiser
Boat: Lagoon 450
Posts: 571
Re: Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

Feedback from our Lagoon service agent is that the Ultraflex electronic throttle is problematic and unreliable and when it goes down its of course the most Inopportune time ie negotiating around your marina. Specifically its the actuators. We have one on our new L450 but thinking now about putting a manual one in place. I have however been advised that later model Lagoons are upgraded with the Mark II, as I have, and the known problems fixed.....I'm about to find out.
__________________
Steve
SV Emerald Sea
L450
Emerald Sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2014, 06:19   #5
Registered User
 
Freedom52's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 18
Re: Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

Electronic throttles: not fixed on the 52 with Micro Commander servo units. Failure to engage in forward on the Stbd drive has been the cause of several near misses. Lack of full engagement caused a cone clutch failure in less than 400 hours of TT.
Joystick: there is a Raymarine auto pilot remote that does the same thing anywhere on the boat.
Sailing and mastering the boat: done from the flybridge all the time, only watches performed down below. This is not a motor yacht and these are not set up with a functional wheelhouse style station, and besides, the sails are all controlled above. Even the emergency main sheet release has been eliminated below.
__________________
Freedom52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-04-2014, 23:18   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 28
Re: Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom52 View Post
Joystick: there is a Raymarine auto pilot remote that does the same thing anywhere on the boat.
True, I was referring to AP joystick!
__________________
hefestus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2014, 12:03   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 50
Re: Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald Sea View Post
Feedback from our Lagoon service agent is that the Ultraflex electronic throttle is problematic and unreliable and when it goes down its of course the most Inopportune time ie negotiating around your marina. Specifically its the actuators. We have one on our new L450 but thinking now about putting a manual one in place. I have however been advised that later model Lagoons are upgraded with the Mark II, as I have, and the known problems fixed.....I'm about to find out.
What did you find out?

Are the remote throttles problematic?

Thanks ;-)
__________________
dougdaniel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2014, 19:33   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
Emerald Sea's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Live-aboard Cruiser
Boat: Lagoon 450
Posts: 571
Re: Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

Doug
Ive been using my L450 with the Ultraflex quite a lot between sailing, and of course docking manouvers since March. When the boat was delivered the first UF Shifter fault was that the motor was still engaged when the shifter was in neutral. This was repaired onsite (linkage settings) and the following week another fault occurred: when shifter first engaged the engine would not engage - it needed the next notch up to engage - this was not a linkage issue. The agent then had the complete shifter replaced - this was done last week, so not a lot of history yet on this replacement. I have however kept the slight faulty one in my possession as this is mission critical equipment and I want the spare until I have confidence that this new one works correctly. An argument developed but possession is 9/10ths the law!

I have ordered a spare UF PowerA Actuator. While I have not had any issues yet with the actuators I felt I needed to have one available (even though I have a 2 yr warranty).

I have not done a lot of cockpit steering with the Raymarine AP shifter and throttles and to be honest I dont expect that I will. The method that I sail, the place to manage, steer and operate your boat is the at the helm station, not inside enjoying tea when sailing. However I like the equipment redundancy it offers.

The 450 is a cruising boat and due to its exposed helm position will never be a true bluewater craft. Having said that, we intend to take it across oceans and no double it will see weather and you will find me at the helm and not indoors when the winds howl. Im settled with this compromise - along with oilers and goggles!

Steve
S/V Emerald Sea
__________________
Emerald Sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2014, 21:47   #9
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
Re: Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

As we add more and more complexity and systems to the marine environment, we can expect more and more electronic, systems and operator error issues to crop up. Having the latest and greatest gizmo will not mean much if it crashes or develops reliability problems according to Murphy's Law which remains alive and well. If you are a committed techy who thrives on adding more complexity to a sport and lifestyle that is aimed at simplifying ones existence, good on you. But for those of us who are trying to take off from the thundering herd, it doesn't do us much good. Cheers, Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 03:55   #10
Registered User
 
DavefromNZ's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: NZ
Boat: Lagoon 450
Posts: 389
Re: Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

Hi Steve,

I have been in some reasonable seas which break over the bows and I think compared to nearly all keel boats and yachts without fly bridges the L450 is extremely dry with only the exceptional spray. With the Bimini it is a good shelter.

However I have the raymarine remote in the saloon. In any weather or at night I am inside as it is warm, comfortable, sociable and I have full instrumentation. We have AIS and radar so why operate on the flybridge as it only adds to fatigue at night?

Cheers
Dave


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
DavefromNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 04:22   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
Emerald Sea's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Live-aboard Cruiser
Boat: Lagoon 450
Posts: 571
Re: Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

Dave. I'll work on that. Thanks for your note.


Emerald Sea
Lagoon 450/304
__________________
Steve
SV Emerald Sea
L450
Emerald Sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2014, 04:48   #12
Registered User
 
DavefromNZ's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: NZ
Boat: Lagoon 450
Posts: 389
Re: Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

PS I found in rough weather that an "artificial horizon" at the nav station gave me and the crew confidence and felt less sea sick. I use my ipad and the best app I could find was "Flight Instruments" by BBFlight.

We found that the L450 mostly rolls only 10 deg with the odd 20 deg. However pitch in a bit of a sea is plus and minus 10 deg. Basically everyone feels nauseous and some sick the first few days out 😬


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
DavefromNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2014, 00:31   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Mackay,QLD, Australia
Boat: planning a approx 45ft cat
Posts: 3,651
Images: 3
Re: Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

Two L440's I am aware of cyurrently in the Med have moved modified their throttle controls from the nav station and mounted them near the transom. perfect for mooring, particually med mooring.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Col mooring.jpg
Views:	232
Size:	193.2 KB
ID:	86137  
__________________
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2014, 04:25   #14
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,455
Re: Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

For some pithy observations on these systems, see Richard Spindler's comments in Changes in Latitudes, Aug 2014 edition of Latitude 38.

AS for me, I wouldn't have one on board. Too many chances for an awkward and expensive FU when the electronics have a glitch.

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II , lying Port Cygnet, Tasmania once again
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-10-2014, 16:03   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Bribie Isl then permanently cruising from Feb 2013
Boat: 2006 Lagoon 440
Posts: 104
Re: Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

Following the lead of L440 "Dominos", We have removed our saloon throttle and gear shifts to a pedestal we had fabricated and I installed just near the port aft engine hatch, and it has made berthing stern-too an absolute breeze. I have never used the joystick in the saloon, but have left it there. We also added a anchor control switch on the pedestal, so we can drop the anchor, start backing -in, and lay out just enough cable to hold the boat, letting more out as we need as we close the quay. It has been amazingly simple and I'd highly recommend anyone with a cat, even if not a Lagoon, to consider the mod. I can manage the throttles, the anchor, and the port aft stern line all from the one spot. See the photo in earlier Downunder post. That's our boat pictured.
__________________

__________________
coldar1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
engine, rot, rudder

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
problem with Lewmar thruster joystick controller GatorDontPlay Propellers & Drive Systems 5 27-06-2016 06:27
Joystick Sail Control System lancelots Multihull Sailboats 27 20-09-2012 10:01
For Sale: Guest Model 22200 Spotlight with Joystick Remote (New) Microship Classifieds Archive 1 30-04-2010 11:13
Raymarine C120 at Helm and Nav Station thomaswaier Marine Electronics 4 10-10-2009 19:16
Minimum Nav station equipment suggetions anglooff Marine Electronics 14 09-08-2007 20:06



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:54.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.