410: Down wind sail

[ozsailer]

Hell all
we are currently in the process of getting a new set of sails for the 410. Narrowed our choice down to two sail makers. One Local and one overseas. Very considerable savings in going to the overseas maker but still making our final decisions ensuring that we are comparing what both are offering.
When the new main and heady are done we want add to our sail plan with a down wind sail of some description. This is where I become confused from all the information coming forward. There are only my wife and I so ease of deployment and recovery is at the top of the list. Working out if we go to a spinnaker set up with a sock or a furling Asymmetrical spinnaker is doing my head in.
Any one with what they have experienced would be greatly appreciated in helping to work out what would work best for us. We are not racers, though we do like an efficient sail plan to get the best out of the boat. I really like the Parasail from Istec as it seemed to fit the bill but the quote of nearly $14 000 Aus was a bit of a shock.


Greg and Sue
SV Sunshine
Lagoon 410 S2

[Neptune's Gear]

I have several downwind sails, both symmetric and asymmetric. If I had to pic one, it would be the A2 on a furler. THE most versatile, and easy to manage. Good for about 70 deg thru 150 deg apparent. If going directly downwind, a spinnaker is better though.... but harder to manage.

[GILow]

I've not used any of the Code 0, 1, 2 sails but I have sailed with spinnakers and the MPS (asym) with a sock and it's a no brainer for me, I love the MPS.

I use it on my own all the time, and as I get to know it better it is proving to be a very versatile sail. Ours has had a lot of use before we bought the boat, which is a bit of a clue.

I am interested by the furling options, but I do like the way I can just pull down the sock, open the sail bag on the foredeck, and drop the MPS straight down into the bag when I have finished with it.

Matt

[Neptune's Gear]

If you like an MPS, you'd be blown away with an A2. Most MPS sails are "floor cut" and often nylon - stretchy. A modern A2 will make you heel less and provide more fwd force. They are head and shoulders above an old mps for efficiency. Furlers are easier than a sock...even an ATN sock, which is the best of the socks!

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear

If you like an MPS, you'd be blown away with an A2. Most MPS sails are "floor cut" and often nylon - stretchy. A modern A2 will make you heel less and provide more fwd force. They are head and shoulders above an old mps for efficiency. Furlers are easier than a sock...even an ATN sock, which is the best of the socks!

I would not be surprised to find shapes, cuts and materials are better now. But how easy is it to remove the furling gear when you have finished using the sail? I really love the way I can just stuff the MPS in the bag when I have finished and drop it through the forward hatch into the sail locker. I imagine putting away a furled sail would be a bit more work?

Matt

[Ozbullwinkle]

I have experience with a Parasailor and have used it in true wind strengths of 25 knots for stints of up to 120 hours and they are very well behaved. Shame that the decline in the A$ have made them more expensive but you often see second hand ones come up for sale.

Ours was 188 sq metres on a 60 foot FP Eleuthera. We could have gone larger but this was big enough when running it short crewed in stronger winds. It was good for apparent wind angles of 70 through to 180.

You can see it on my YouTube channel which has the same name as my CF username.




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[ozsailer]

Thanks OB, it would be almost the identical set up on our Lagoon but the winches would be on the coach house roof. Just wish I could justify the money. Loved the Youtube vids.


Greg and Sue'
SV Sunshine

[Neptune's Gear]

Furled sails are easy - see http://youtu.be/C_1vUaruCYI
and
http://youtu.be/mo5l4r2N14g
The furler can be left attached to the sail if you want - furl it, drop it, roll it up into the bag. No harder than a sock, and more compact.

[Cap Erict3]

No mention of twin head sails?

[2Hulls]

Hi Greg and Sue - for deep downwind you would benefit most from a symmetrical spi. AND it doesn't have to be a para$ailor...

If you have the hardware, a sym spi is the way to go. We like ours so much we bought a spare...

The hardware you need that may not be on your boat is a guy on each bow - a standup block or similar with the line leading back to the cockpit. If you have this, you're set. Two sheets and two guys. It's quite intuitive how to adjust the sail to the wind angle. Just rotate the sail to be perpendicular to the apparent wind. Usually a sheet and opposite guy will be lazy. No pole needed. The guys spread out across the bows eliminates this.

We routinely use our sym spi double handed in light wind. It does get difficult to douse in winds over 15 kts. But if you're bigger than I am (65kg) you'll have less trouble. No main - it blankets the spi.

Gybing is child's play. It just floats in front of the boat, rotating side to side. Adjust the sheets/guys to position the sail where it needs to be - facing the wind.

Do not get sucked in to the "parasailor" sales pitch. This gimmick is not needed on multihulls.

2 Hulls Dave

[gspeak]

I almost got sucked in last year to a second hand Parasailor ..... Missed it but no regrets, so still sailing with just Genoa & main. Tho I always rig a Barbour hauler for the Genoa out to mid cleats when anywhere from a beam reach to near downwind, makes a heap of difference to the angle of attack. We can wing it using this when ddw while supping a xxxx.

Dave


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[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by gspeak

I almost got sucked in last year to a second hand Parasailor ..... Missed it but no regrets, so still sailing with just Genoa & main. Tho I always rig a Barbour hauler for the Genoa out to mid cleats when anywhere from a beam reach to near downwind, makes a heap of difference to the angle of attack. We can wing it using this when ddw while supping a xxxx.

Dave


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yup, i figured out recently that spinnaker guy blocks are excellent tool to trim jib better. Adds 1/2 knot or so and sail sets better.

i have sym spinnaker but used only once so far as winds are too strong around sydney.

i dont think will need spi for my next big test - sail to lord howe island.

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by Neptune's Gear

Furled sails are easy - see http://youtu.be/C_1vUaruCYI
and
Profurl SPINEX top down spinnaker furler - YouTube
The furler can be left attached to the sail if you want - furl it, drop it, roll it up into the bag. No harder than a sock, and more compact.

I sail routinely on two boats. One is a cat with AS on a furler and the other is a monohull with an AS fitted with a sock.
In my opinion, while the sock is nice and easy, the furler is way much more easy to use.
I took the crew of the monohull to the cat for a sail and since than the only talk is how to convince the owner to invest in a furler...

[GILow]

Those two videos were certainly interesting but I was left wondering about the worst case scenario, as usual. I wonder how the furling would work in strong winds, like when you were trying to douse that big sail after an unexpected wind increase, and also how you would handle the sail if something went wrong with the furling unit.

I am not saying they would necessarily be any better or worse than a sock, but I do think it is an important consideration.

So far I have not had to manage our MPS in anything but good to ideal conditions, so I remain a bit worried about our current setup.

Matt


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[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by GILow

Those two videos were certainly interesting but I was left wondering about the worst case scenario, as usual. I wonder how the furling would work in strong winds, like when you were trying to douse that big sail after an unexpected wind increase, and also how you would handle the sail if something went wrong with the furling unit.

I am not saying they would necessarily be any better or worse than a sock, but I do think it is an important consideration.

So far I have not had to manage our MPS in anything but good to ideal conditions, so I remain a bit worried about our current setup.

Matt


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worry is warranted.

Worst case scenario should be worked out, say wind increase to 50 kn in < 30 secs.

Just have to release the whole thing and let go.