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Old 22-02-2015, 10:22   #31
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Have a look at Wingaker. Same concept and material as the parasailor but about 1/2 the price. We love ours. You will have to use Google translate on the website as it is from Austria . Very easy to deal with and helpfull.

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Old 22-02-2015, 16:57   #32
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Re: Down wind sail

Wingaker looks interesting. Not sure about price delivered to Australia from Austria. There's more than just an "al" in difference between the countries!

A friend with a L400 is getting a symmetrical spinnaker, new for under A$3000, so will see how this works out.

Arsenalupiga, I didn't realise that Parasailors had a stigma or bad reputation. Thanks for the heads up. But getting a bad reputation has never stopped me in the past! I've never had the opportunity to try one, but have been told that Parasailors are able to fly in a much wider range of wind speeds than a conventional spinnaker. This may lead to a little bit less stress in worrying about getting caught out by a rising wind. Pity they are so expensive.
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Old 22-02-2015, 16:58   #33
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Re: Down wind sail

Hello everyone, its been a very interesting read and as a result I have been doing a lot more research into what would be most beneficial as well as cost effective including a competitor to the Istek Parasailor being the Wingaker parasail from Austria.

As we are currently having a new main made for the boat I spoke with the sailmaker who was prepared to do an estimate for me to run a furling spinnaker which included the installation of all the required hardware and running rigging as well as the furler and sail. Shock horror. Approximate five K for the supply and installation of the prodder, dolphin strikers running gear and another 4 grand for the furler. On top of that add 4 grand for the sail and its stacks up quite considerably. The furling system was from a very very reputable company here in Sydney who are doing this type of mod to Seawind Catamarans and specialise in this type of retro fit.
I thought it might be an bit of overkill till I talked to our local shipwright. He was caught out doing a similar installation on a Fountaine Pajot 46. Long story short the boat was never designed for the retro fit and caused considerable damage to the inner hulls due to the amount of stress placed on the connection points. It required a marine architect to work out the loads and advise of the required construction for the retro fit. Big job.
I have not found any information on a retro fit for the Lagoon but if anyone knows of anything I would be muchly appreciated.
I have since found Wingaker parasails. They appear to be well advanced in their design and have a solid understanding of the aerodynamics of the sail due to their involvement with gliding parasails. I really like the fact that the sails are tested in a wind tunnel to determine their efficiency and strength. Research shows them widley used in the ARC and European countries much like the Istec Brand.
Despite all the research I have done I cannot find anything negative on either Istec or the Wingaker unit. Both are shown on youtube in a variety of conditions by their respective owners. The big difference in the two is the price. The Wingaker is less than half the price of the Istec unit with all the gear and at this time we are leaning that way. I understand the comments over marketing ploys but normally with such marketing I would have expected a few negative comments regarding their efficiency or claims not being up to scratch. None found to date.




Greg and Sue
SV Sunshine.
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Old 22-02-2015, 17:11   #34
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Re: Down wind sail

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Shock horror. Approximate five K for the supply and installation of the prodder, dolphin strikers running gear and another 4 grand for the furler...
Don't need any of that with a sym spi.

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Old 13-03-2015, 07:19   #35
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Re: Down wind sail

Well I did it. After much researching we put down a deposit to purchase the Austrian (not Australian) "Wingaker". with sock. The cost of a furling system was just too great to contemplate going down this path. I totally understood the comments regarding caution in regard to the design but the sail design has been around for quite some time now and are in fact into their forth generation of sails. I could find no negative feedback that I could locate despite quite exhaustive searches.

I guess it will be a case of wait and see if I made the right decision. The actual cost was quite comparable with a similar size spinnaker made here in Australia and the actual cost of running rigging will be identical. Stand by for reports as things progress.


Greg, Sue and Bella the Sea Dog
SV Sunshine
Lake Macquarie, New South Wales
Australia
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Old 13-03-2015, 07:36   #36
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pirate Re: Down wind sail

Monte's old Lagoon 380 had a mini sprit on the fore beam if I remember correctly which I flew a furling AS from on the delivery from Italy to the Canaries.. worked a treat and was the only sail I flew for the 5.5 day run from Gib down to Gran Canaria.
Maybe he's still got a picture somewhere that shows it.. linked onto the existing Genoa fittings if memory serves me well..
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Old 25-08-2015, 00:35   #37
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Re: Down wind sail

Hello all,
well after a prolonged period we finally got to raise the new Wingaker today. We are not experienced sailers when it comes to these type of sails and we wanted a quiet day to ensure that everything should run correctly and if not no big deal and we could deal with any issues.
We launched the Wingakaer in 8 knots and initially had an issue with the sock getting stuck halfway, I think it was operator error and it soon came out freely and deployed very easily. We opted for the smaller 100 square metre sail and frankly it is an excellent size for my wife and I to handle. In 8 knots were were sailing at 4.6 knots so I am very happy so far. In the light breezes we were gybing the sail without difficulty but with our in-experience I was confusing which lines to use but we just took our time and if we were getting flustered, stopped what we were doing and re-grouped. We were just starting to get in the groove when there was a large wind shift so we opted to drop the sail. I was very proud of my wife who went forward and doused the sail utilising the sock without and difficulty what so ever. Now we have to go home for a week or so but just can't wait to start using the new sail more regularly, particularly now the wife is as excited as me.



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Old 25-08-2015, 05:23   #38
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Down wind sail

We did the same Greg. 168sq m Wingaker on our Lagoon 450 at Auckland. See YouTube link below. Up and down with ease 5 times in 18kts wind and from 7 to 8.5kts boat speed. It was good to about 120 deg true, 110 apparent. Still figuring out the best guy rope combination but think will get down to 90 deg in lighter winds.

Very stable and easy, aiming to take line honors in the multihull cruising division of the Coastal Classic race in Oct :-)

http://youtu.be/ZB6E8id5OD0

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Old 28-08-2015, 19:31   #39
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Re: Down wind sail

We have a 132 sq. m assy with an ATN sock on the 420. Tack is on the bowsprit. Will sail to 90 deg apparent.

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Old 28-08-2015, 21:17   #40
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Re: Down wind sail

Congrats guys, looks good. Snagging on the wing usually means you need to pull the up haul aft more when raising the sock.
Sitting in the bow seat works well for lowering the sock.
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Old 29-08-2015, 01:39   #41
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Re: Down wind sail

https://youtu.be/RvFfNeRRE3c

https://youtu.be/SVjQ5Ljg5s4


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Old 27-10-2015, 02:33   #42
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Re: Down wind sail

I read this about wingaker, is it the same for istec parasail ?

Für Langfahrt nicht geeignet. Bei hoher UV-Belastung versagt das Tuch nach kurze...r Zeit (140 Einsatzstunden gesamt, davon 77 Sonnenstunden). Garantieansprüche werden abgelehnt, z.B. mit der Begründung "Überbelastung durch Sonnenschuss" und dass bei einem Katamaran.
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Old 27-10-2015, 17:27   #43
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Re: Down wind sail

Hello all,
Sue and I are currently in Townsville in far north Queensland and are about to start our journey back south in there next week or so. We have had little opurtunity to use the winemaker since having it on the boat as the Sou East Winds have been horrendous. The northerlies are just start to kick in and hope to use the sail way more on the trip south.
Love the you tube videos Dave.



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SV Sunshine
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Old 27-10-2015, 17:57   #44
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Re: Down wind sail

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Originally Posted by ozsailer View Post
Hello all,
Sue and I are currently in Townsville in far north Queensland and are about to start our journey back south in there next week or so. We have had little opurtunity to use the winemaker since having it on the boat as the Sou East Winds have been horrendous.
I'd have thought being anchored/moored/in a marina while waiting for the Sou'Easters to subside would be an ideal time to use a winemaker

(Are you on a phone/tablet? Auto-correct is so much fun at times!)
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Old 27-10-2015, 18:04   #45
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Re: Down wind sail

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavefromNZ View Post
We did the same Greg. 168sq m Wingaker on our Lagoon 450 at Auckland. See YouTube link below. Up and down with ease 5 times in 18kts wind and from 7 to 8.5kts boat speed. It was good to about 120 deg true, 110 apparent. Still figuring out the best guy rope combination but think will get down to 90 deg in lighter winds.

Very stable and easy, aiming to take line honors in the multihull cruising division of the Coastal Classic race in Oct :-)

http://youtu.be/ZB6E8id5OD0

Dave
So how did you go?

I bet that Wingaker didn't get much use in this year's race
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