Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-08-2016, 03:50   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 14
Dead run on Lagoon 400

In the owners manual of the Lagoon 400 it says :
"- Do not fall off more than 150 to the apparent wind"

Is this just a typical manufacturing "better give safe guidance" or is it really ill advised to dead run on a Lagoon 400 in 15-20knots conditions (or any other conditions)?
How would you go about putting in a preventer, given the height of the boom?
__________________

__________________
Juch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2016, 05:06   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Sydney
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 976
Re: Dead run on Lagoon 400

shrouds are in the way, so best option i found is to take 1 reef in main, or 2 if conditions stronger. Then sail can be moved on side more, especially second reef.

But often, due to laziness, or sea too confused, or both, just use jib attached to cleat when dead downwind. Or screecher only, or spi only.

I will have to buy new jib soon, so will have option to deploy 2 jibs, which is 58m2 DDW, fully reefable.
__________________

__________________
arsenelupiga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2016, 05:51   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 14
Re: Dead run on Lagoon 400

HI Arsene,

Thanks for your response, are you saying that in your experience the Lagoon 400 handles dead runs well, no safety concerns involved? And that the advice of the owners manual is erroring too much on the side of caution?

But if I do so, you would advise to do it on Jib/Genoa only? (no Spin available on the charter boat I think)
__________________
Juch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2016, 09:10   #4
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 4,939
Re: Dead run on Lagoon 400

The probable reason for that statement on wind angles, has both to do with Polars/VMG, & minimizing chafe on the main. As usually when sailing DDW, your VMG is lower than if you sail using gybing angles. Which you can see via your Polars.
The bit about chafe on the main is fairly obvious.

As to preventers & there rigging, it's covered in depth here Preventer Rigging?
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2016, 10:33   #5
Registered User
 
Scottster's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sidney, B.C.
Boat: Lagoon L400S2
Posts: 239
Re: Dead run on Lagoon 400

I use a Barber Haul on my jib connected to the mooring cleat mid ship to hold the foresail out at a better angle to the wind.
The main gets reefed then let out to the shrouds
Failing that up goes one of the spinnakers.
We will run our spinnakers to 20 knots, my wind alarm is set at 20 and if it sounds than back to the white sails and downwind jibes to make a strong VMG.Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByCruisers Sailing Forum1471368788.315735.jpg
Views:	179
Size:	82.8 KB
ID:	129669


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Scottster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2016, 05:10   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boat in Greece, home - Israel
Boat: Lagoon 400 & Nacra 6.0 beach cat
Posts: 565
Re: Dead run on Lagoon 400

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottster View Post
I use a Barber Haul on my jib connected to the mooring cleat mid ship to hold the foresail out at a better angle to the wind.
The main gets reefed then let out to the shrouds
Failing that up goes one of the spinnakers.
We will run our spinnakers to 20 knots, my wind alarm is set at 20 and if it sounds than back to the white sails and downwind jibes to make a strong VMG.Attachment 129669


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
While the above is logical, I suspect that even with a spinnaker it would be better VMG tacking downwind than DDW run. We have an asymmetric on our L400 and tacking with it is certainly faster than running at 180deg. My experience with symmetrics on monohulls is similar. Of course the stronger the wind the lower you can sail.
__________________
meirriba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2016, 07:47   #7
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 16,835
Re: Dead run on Lagoon 400

They run ddw very well. My clients sailed theirs from here to the West Indies all the way under spinnaker tied to the bows. Never less than 140 a day.

Cheers,
b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2016, 08:13   #8
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,050
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Dead run on Lagoon 400

Running DDW...???
Never bother with the main.. an extra knot or so's not worth the aggravation.
Spinnaker or jib just off DDW enough to stop the leech luffing.. can't be assed with preventers and all that stuff.. mainsails are for upwind as far as I'm concerned..
__________________


"Your not drunk if you can lay on the floor without holding on..."
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2016, 08:35   #9
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 16,835
Re: Dead run on Lagoon 400

How do you fuse a sheet on a spinnaker when you sail a cat ddw?

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2016, 08:50   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Boat in Greece, home - Israel
Boat: Lagoon 400 & Nacra 6.0 beach cat
Posts: 565
Re: Dead run on Lagoon 400

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
They run ddw very well. My clients sailed theirs from here to the West Indies all the way under spinnaker tied to the bows. Never less than 140 a day.

Cheers,
b.
Certainly it works and moreover for a crossing with trade winds it is also hassle free. Just set and forget. On the other hand, if you want to play and adjust, I still suspect that tacking downwind is faster. So it comes down to what style of sailing you prefer and what type of crew you have.
In 2003, I skippered a Beneteau 42.3 in the ARC. We have sailed the last two weeks DDW under asymmetrical spinnaker (no mainsail). It was not the fastest but the most convenient. For a 10 days or so, we have been crossed every day at noon by an HR42 tacking downwind under only jib and mainsail doing the exact same VMG towards st. Lucia.
__________________
meirriba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-08-2016, 10:40   #11
Registered User
 
Scottster's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sidney, B.C.
Boat: Lagoon L400S2
Posts: 239
Re: Dead run on Lagoon 400

If I was in a race I would explore all the variables.
We are on a 10 year cruise, my race DNA is proven, my cruising DNA Is still in the works.
Set and forget is the new me, ( with a little trim here and there, and no other boat on the horizon,) LOL




Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Scottster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2016, 01:09   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 14
Re: Dead run on Lagoon 400

Thank you all for sharing your views.
__________________
Juch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2016, 04:28   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 924
Re: Dead run on Lagoon 400

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
The probable reason for that statement on wind angles, has both to do with Polars/VMG, & minimizing chafe on the main. As usually when sailing DDW, your VMG is lower than if you sail using gybing angles. Which you can see via your Polars.
VMG may be lower but the boat movement is much smoother on DDW course when compared to gybing, at least in some wind and fully developed seas. So I prefer DDW.

I Just bring it out as much as posisble without chafe on the shrouds. the genoa on the other side, possibly sheeted to a cleat to get it further out than possible with the normal sheting.


for long DDW passages in the trades like transat I'd prefer two similar sized genoas on one roller furler, without the main. Plus maybe a Spi for nice daytim weather.
__________________
rabbi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2016, 12:20   #14
Registered User
 
ObiWanSand's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Helgeland, Norway
Boat: Lagoon 42 2017 and a BB17, 23 ' 1962 racer
Posts: 29
Re: Dead run on Lagoon 400

I read in Multihulls world about an australian couple sailing their Helia 44 on a transat. They claimed something like; "Once we hit the trades, we hoisted our parasailor and 14 days later we lowered it again in the caribian seas. We used it day and night, and just eased out on the sheets to let it fly higher whenever the squalls came. Worked like a charm!"

That was not a verbatim quote, but to me that was the gist of their story. Don't think they even hoisted the main...
__________________
ObiWanSand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2016, 14:59   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 924
Re: Dead run on Lagoon 400

when we did our trans atlantic (Feb 2011, Lagoon 410, Cap verdes to the Grenadines) we had "trade winds" from 3 knots to 30 knots. On most of the days (and nights!) we had squalls around 35kn, but often gusting to the 40s.

So for us a parasailor would not have been something to set and forget. during squalls a parasailor would certainly result in some damage.

The double genoa setup was much easier to reef / drop in a squall than any spinnaker but of course we lost a few hours or maybe a day over this two week passage. But than I'm not in a hurry, I just want to make decent progress without breaking anything.

A spinnaker is nice but only in stable conditions.
__________________

__________________
rabbi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lagoon, lagoon 400

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
400: Lagoon 400 or 400 S2 Big Joe Bob Lagoon Catamarans 20 11-01-2015 13:12
For Sale: Brand New NAIS-400 AIS Transceiver - Class B & NSPL-400 mcerdos Classifieds Archive 2 15-12-2014 16:47
Isotherm Freezer - Run, Stop, Run, Stop... Cruisin Cat Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 8 24-04-2014 18:06


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:44.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.