440: Code Zero reaching asil

[coldar1]

Can anyone give me the benefits of their experience in using a full radial cut Code Zero reaching sail on a L440? I'm interested in any tricks with trimming, and importantly, the upper limit where using the sail might not be the smartest and it should be furled?

[2Wind]

You need to be careful with the terminology, as the same name can be used in different countries to mean different things.

Here's a link to a Q&A from North Sails on this topic:
Fore Sails - North America - North Sails Q&A - North Sails Q&A - Questions For Sail Designer

My 440's inventory forward of the mast includes a a genoa on a drum furler at the forestay - 42sqm, a screecher on a detachable furler of the bow sprit - 90sqm, and an ASI off a bridle from sprit to windward bow - 165sqm.

For general cruising, I'd go with a screecher rather than a code 0. In light conditions say under 8kts it will sail to wind up to 50 degrees apparrent with a tight luff. At higher wind strength its back to 70 degrees apparent. It comes down above 25 kts. At its best in 15-20 on a reach. When I'm lazy or short handed its OK on a deep reach where I should be using the ASI. Its just such an easy sail to use single handed.

As for the ASI, great in light conditions from 60 degrees apparent. Ideal on a reech to 160 degrees. I've used mine in 25-30kts on a deep reech. Skipper and one good crew or two OK crew needed to get it down when the wind is up.

[Palarran]

Coldar,
I hope you get some good responses with this thread as I am very close to purchasing a Code 0 for Palarran. My only concerns are the clearance between the foot of the sail and my seagull stryker and that it doesn't get tangled with my roller furling jib as the two are fairly close together. I'd also like to confirm that it sheets in inside of the shrouds, not outside as my asymmetrical does.

I'm specifically looking at the Code 0 as it is the best sail for upwind. Palarran has a self tacking jib so it is fairly small. In winds less than 10 knots, we basically don't sail as the speed is too slow. Down wind with my A4 in 10 knots true we can get about 6+ knots, which is ok. What is the difference between a screacher and a code 0? I don't know but if the Code 0 sails to 40 degrees and the screacher is max 50, I'll go with the Code 0 because that is my biggest hole in sailing. At 50 degrees, my main and jib are fairly functional, especially in heavier winds.

[casablanca]

I have a Code 0 on our 420. It's on a removable continuous line furler on the bowsprit.

I can't get much better than 70 apparent. As I understand it the code 0 is supposed to be a reaching sail anyway. It's good in light winds from about 70 to 160. The wind limit, at least for us is furling. Once you get over 15 kts the exercise of furling starts to get more difficult. I furl by hand while my wife handles the sheets. Some practice and coordination is required, but even though we have used the code 0 often we sometimes get it wrong and then, in a good breeze it can be a handful to sort out.

We also have an assy spinnaker with the tack run from the bowsprit. It will handle 90 to 180. With the sock it's easier to handle in stronger winds.

Our rule if thumb is.

Windward: Jib
Reach: Code 0 up to 20 true, but at 15 we start thinking about furling
Spinnaker: broad reach to downwind winds up to 25 kts true.
Above 25 kts: Back to the jib.

But we are cruisers out for a good time so we aim to be conservative. If you have a bigger crew and more experience etc., you might do better.

Lots of Lagoons seem to have a "Gennaker" which is probably a code 0 and a jib/genoa. I prefer to have jib, code 0 and spinnaker. They each have their uses but if I had to chose I'd prefer the assy over the code 0.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by casablanca

I have a Code 0 on our 420. It's on a removable continuous line furler on the bowsprit.

I can't get much better than 70 apparent. As I understand it the code 0 is supposed to be a reaching sail anyway. It's good in light winds from about 70 to 160. The wind limit, at least for us is furling. Once you get over 15 kts the exercise of furling starts to get more difficult. I furl by hand while my wife handles the sheets. Some practice and coordination is required, but even though we have used the code 0 often we sometimes get it wrong and then, in a good breeze it can be a handful to sort out.

We also have an assy spinnaker with the tack run from the bowsprit. It will handle 90 to 180. With the sock it's easier to handle in stronger winds.

Our rule if thumb is.

Windward: Jib
Reach: Code 0 up to 20 true, but at 15 we start thinking about furling
Spinnaker: broad reach to downwind winds up to 25 kts true.
Above 25 kts: Back to the jib.

But we are cruisers out for a good time so we aim to be conservative. If you have a bigger crew and more experience etc., you might do better.

Lots of Lagoons seem to have a "Gennaker" which is probably a code 0 and a jib/genoa. I prefer to have jib, code 0 and spinnaker. They each have their uses but if I had to chose I'd prefer the assy over the code 0.

That is really strange. A 70 apparent wind angle would be somewhere around a 90 degree true wind angle. Do you keep your luff super tight?

It's a bummer that sail doesn't point any better than that. I hope others get better results. Do you have the sheet inside your shrouds?

[Factor]

I can get 50 apparent on a screecher on a 1.3 metre prodder, and if I have to to make a mark etc, I can squeeze it up to 45, but its annoying at that. I think that may be one of the issues with some sail plans, I see some boats with prodders/sprits that are very short, leaves the flying sail way to close, really need to get it "out". As an aside I can get 60 with the MPS (aka Asi) but only in lightish winds.

Also my screecher isn't what you would call a sensational quality sail, I would think if I lashed out on a new one I could get a few degrees better.

[casablanca]

Palarran, I sheet outside the side stays. Perhaps I could sail closer to the wind if I sheeted inside. But we seldom sail upwind in practice and use the code 0 reaching and downwind so we haven't bothered.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by coldar1

Can anyone give me the benefits of their experience in using a full radial cut Code Zero reaching sail on a L440? I'm interested in any tricks with trimming, and importantly, the upper limit where using the sail might not be the smartest and it should be furled?

Maybe a little OT, but also may help.

I have a Seawind with a six foot dolphin striker. When I first bought the boat the PO had a brand new screecher that we took out for the first time and both of us did not like the cut so he sent it back for a recut. When it arrived the new cut resulted in a higher pointing ability.

Not endorsing any of these items, they came with the boat but they do work. Using an endless furerler. I normally wait for a dead no wind window to raise the screecher for the best results in getting the luff tight enough to point highest. But an Fboat racing friend asked why I did not adjust the luff tension dynamically, tightening to point, and more slack as I fall off. Not something I would do single handing but it makes sense in a race.

I also have a working jib. There is a significant interaction among the trim of the working jib, trim of the main, trim of the screecher, and position of the traveler. It is quite important to get all these things right to point as high as possible with the best VMG.

To try and answer your question the first thing you need to do is discuss with your sail maker what you are looking for in your big headsail. They can be cut to maximize pointing high, for most speed off the wind, or somewhere in between. They can also have a tight or slack luff. You can also reef the main and adjust the traveler. All these factors (and probably more I forgot), along with the capt/crew will determine at what point you reduce sail.

Lots of folks, me included, think it is much easier to, douse a furlered head sail than reef something like a big square top like I have.

Bottom line single handing I furel the screecher around 12-15 knots depending on sea conditions and my assessment of current weather conditions. I also like a head sail cut to maximize pointing ability since cats seem to have more problems doing that than reaching.

YMMV

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by casablanca

Palarran, I sheet outside the side stays. Perhaps I could sail closer to the wind if I sheeted inside. But we seldom sail upwind in practice and use the code 0 reaching and downwind so we haven't bothered.

Probably. The reason I've been wondering about this is looking at pictures of performance mono's with Code 0's, they have them sheeted like a super-large genoa. The slot is fairly closed, the sail is tight and there is very little camber. If you look at the picture they have it sheeted outside the shrouds but accounting for our large beam, it would be inside on a cat.

But hey, I'm no expert. I can say it would be great to be able to sail to windward and then choose whether to or not.

[Nicholson58]

We are adding a code zero this season. We asked Quantum to deliberately make it relatively flat since we also have an AS kite. We went with ATN sock instead of the really expensive roller gizmo. We don't expect to operate this really close hauled or in winds much above 6 apparent. 131.5 sq meter.

File attached - I hope. For some reason lately, all my images show up in preview and disappear on posting, leaving only "rotate image" message behind.

[colemj]

That's the problem with using Quantum when you live in the Northern hemisphere…

Mark

[vanWell]

Sorry to hijack slightly but any 440 owners know the 'I' measurement for the standard mast. I can't find it anywhere on a google search and my tape measure is way to short to measure up the mast to the spinnaker Sheeve. Thanks.

[2Wind]

i = 17.23m
J = 4.25m
P = 17.06m
E = 6.50m
LP = 5.17m

[vanWell]

Thanks muchly......

[WaterIsLife]

[QUOTE=Palarran;1484612]Probably. The reason I've been wondering about this is looking at pictures of performance mono's with Code 0's, they have them sheeted like a super-large genoa. The slot is fairly closed, the sail is tight and there is very little camber. If you look at the picture they have it sheeted outside the shrouds but accounting for our large beam, it would be inside on a cat.

A monohull is very different from a cat or tri. In order to point you definitely want to sheet a Code 0 or screecher inside the shrouds. Outside the shrouds may be OK to go deep downwind , 270 degrees +, but it will not go upwind very well. You want to have very tight tension on the halyard. I tighten my halyard with a winch. I have 2 sheeting positions for my screecher. One is 2' outside of the jib sheeting positions. This one is used to go upwind at 45 to 50 degrees off the wind. Your sail must be cut to go upwind in order to point this high. Tight tension on the halyard is the key to good upwind performance. The screecher will not point quite as high as a jib.

My second screecher sheeting position is further out, but still inside the shrouds. This one is used to beam reach or go downwind.

Note a true code 0 will not point very high, they are cut to sail closer to a beam reach in lighter winds. There are many definitions and different people mean different things by Code 0.

good luck.