440: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

[TOT]

I was under the impression that all Lagoon 440's had the older style openable windows?


SV TOT 😃
Wayne

[dirkdig]

Mine and every 440 i have seen have the Lewmar hatch you can open, its super heavy duty and not know to break


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[Mr Fahrenheit]

I had a similar issue when crossing the Biscay, I awoke to do my watch and heard the bilge pump alarm. Water was coming in from a failed water pump seal. (Not fixable on route) We would dry the bilge with a hand pump and then record the length of time it would take to trigger the alarm/ this would help us monitor its worsening state. (usually 3 hours and half a bucket). Later the sail drive seal alarm went off on the other engine. I radioed my Engineer and he said to take the sensor out, if water spurts out get to port. Fortunately there was just enough to dampen a piped kitchen towel. Agree it would take quite some time to flood a boat from a std size pipe inlet, this sounds like a more major failure.


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[Scottster]

Every 440 I have seen has the opening style.

To the point of a failed hatch due to breakage brings up a valid point, I would be looking very hard and very fast to find a plug that size.
Now that it's in my mind a properly sized piece of 3/4 plywood and a plan is on my list.
Once the alarm goes you could make that hull the windward hull and facilitate repairs but it would not be easy.


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[Bahia]

Hi, in that case you could use a fitted plywood, which has glued EPDM seal on it already. And you can work in lets say 4 stubs facing the inside. So once you cover the hatch hole from the outside you have 2 aluminum crossbars ready which you screw onto the studs with butterfly nuts...

[dirkdig]

For the escape hatch to break something hard and sharp would need to hit it like a canon.
We have tested outs with millions of waves and no sign of breaking or even looking less than perfect.


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[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Bahia

Hi, in that case you could use a fitted plywood, which has glued EPDM seal on it already. And you can work in lets say 4 stubs facing the inside. So once you cover the hatch hole from the outside you have 2 aluminum crossbars ready which you screw onto the studs with butterfly nuts...

Well elaborated solution. But I have never read any evidence that these escape hatches are a real risk. So I won't prepare such single use emergency hardware and carry it for the next few years.
In that unlikely event I can jury rig something from plywood, screws, maybe a cushion to seal the leak good enough that the pumps can handle it.

[sigmasailor]

I'm guessing that nothing can help you when you have a 40x40 cm hole in your boat (and with bad weather). A hole that size will flood any boat in seconds.
Making sure available compartments are really watertight is all you can do.

I don't know what material the 'breakable' escape hatches are made of but I'm guessing it is made of glass not unlike the stuff found in cars. Those are very strong until hit or handled just the wrong way. Below are some examples: lots more on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhlmKHbPFhU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt-lhJwrfU4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dv0UU66CbU

The secret? Aim for the corners and use a really hard and sharp tool!

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by sigmasailor

I'm guessing that nothing can help you when you have a 40x40 cm hole in your boat (and with bad weather). A hole that size will flood any boat in seconds.
Making sure available compartments are really watertight is all you can do.

if this obviously rare thing happens in really bad weather it's time for switching to the dinghy / liferaft.
But there are many more risks I am more concerned about than breaking an escape hatch in bad weather.

[TOT]

As mentioned by Scottster if all 440's have an openable hatch then that may explain the key issue!

I am not sure that ALL 440's are able to open their hatch but l doubt the hatch window was simply broken and it sounds more like it was left open.




SV TOT
Wayne 😃

[dirkdig]

Made from acrylic and quite thick,they are a lot heavier than the deck hatchs


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[BambooSailor]

... or it could be failed non-marine hose used for below-water plumbing. I just returned from charter on Lagoon with several hoses like that installed and one of them ruptured twice in span of a week. No bilge alarm installed either. We were just lucky that we caught it in time. At least hoses were food-grade rated (the only rating printed on them)...

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by BambooSailor

... or it could be failed non-marine hose used for below-water plumbing. I just returned from charter on Lagoon with several hoses like that installed and one of them ruptured twice in span of a week. No bilge alarm installed either. We were just lucky that we caught it in time. At least hoses were food-grade rated (the only rating printed on them)...

That's just a charter company maintenance issue and not Lagoon specific. Could have been any charter boat.


On the sealed non-opening escape hatches I always think about how to get in from the outside? Say you have just rescued yourself from the capsize and your spouse or child is trapped in a hull and for some reason can't handle the hammer. How do I get in from the outside?

I can understand the rationale for the non-opening windows (fewer leaks, better looks, no sinking the boat if the hatch is left open). But I still prefer the old-style opening hatch.

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by rabbi

....
On the sealed non-opening escape hatches I always think about how to get in from the outside? Say you have just rescued yourself from the capsize and your spouse or child is trapped in a hull and for some reason can't handle the hammer. How do I get in from the outside?
.

On our L400 there is a hammer on the outside as well, (installed by Lagoon) - still there after >8,000Nm of sailing...

[sigmasailor]

On the sealed non-opening escape hatches I always think about how to get in from the outside? Say you have just rescued yourself from the capsize and your spouse or child is trapped in a hull and for some reason can't handle the hammer. How do I get in from the outside?

Same as with the conventional style hatch: dive for it. A 'conventional' hatch also cannot be opened from the outside. Should you (or a rescue worker) have a life hammer they can break it (if breakable). I see the advantages of breakable hatches (cannot forget to close being just 1) but don't like (as in understatement) them breaking without the real need for it.