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Old 21-07-2015, 14:10   #106
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Originally Posted by sigmasailor View Post
If you read all the posts you will read that the incident was probably caused by sudden and catastrophic failing of an escape hatch (about 40x40 cm hole (right at or even below waterline) in any boat would rapidly flood any boat).
Would make sense. Likelihood though?
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Old 21-07-2015, 14:26   #107
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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If you read all the posts you will read that the incident was probably caused by sudden and catastrophic failing of an escape hatch (about 40x40 cm hole (right at or even below waterline) in any boat would rapidly flood any boat).

The eyewitness report said the escape hatch was of the non-opening type. Surely a collision sufficient to break that hatch would have been noticed?

Once the port list set in then the starboard fuel system probably started sucking air.
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Old 21-07-2015, 14:36   #108
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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If you read all the posts you will read that the incident was probably caused by sudden and catastrophic failing of an escape hatch (about 40x40 cm hole (right at or even below waterline) in any boat would rapidly flood any boat).
I don't get it? If I read all the posts, posted by speculators, none of which were there or had any factual knowledge are suddenly the ones that should be listened to because a number of them agreed. Makes sense to me!
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Old 21-07-2015, 14:48   #109
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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I don't get it? If I read all the posts, posted by speculators, none of which were there or had any factual knowledge are suddenly the ones that should be listened to because a number of them agreed. Makes sense to me!
Isn't a democracy here and the cause is what is mentioned the most? That's how I thought it worked...
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Old 21-07-2015, 14:58   #110
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Isn't a democracy here and the cause is what is mentioned the most? That's how I thought it worked...
Well who knows, not me and not you, right?
It certainly sounds like it needed a fair sized hole but I suppose it could have been in the seal of the sail drive as they have had failures in the past or ??? If it was the escape hatch which was factory sealed then I don't think I'd be sleeping very well knowing that the workmanship was substandard on that brand.
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Old 21-07-2015, 15:19   #111
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Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

I had a poorly-placed (by some previous owner) deprecated seacock on a T get accidentally kicked open when I first purchased my 32' Columbia Sabre (full keel sloop) while sailing in San Diego bay. Within less than five minutes, we had two feet of water in the saloon, and by the time we found and shut off the seacock, water was up to the companion way.

A failed seacock can flood a hull in a remarkably short time. By the timing given by the crew and given the similar volume of one hull of that cat to my boat, I think the seacock theory fits the timeline perfectly.


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Old 21-07-2015, 18:17   #112
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

Hi BCS01
I am just glad that nobody was hurt and very happy to see a firsthand report.

I would assume that the charter company will know before anyone else what caused the sinking and l trust they will update you as part of the process, could you PLEASE keep fellow sailors of Lagoon Catamarans updated no matter what the outcome or who is at fault as the quick demise of the boat is a concern to many.


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Old 21-07-2015, 18:37   #113
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Originally Posted by sigmasailor View Post
If you read all the posts you will read that the incident was probably caused by sudden and catastrophic failing of an escape hatch (about 40x40 cm hole (right at or even below waterline) in any boat would rapidly flood any boat).
Sigma Sailor, that was ruled out by the post from the one who was on the boat!.

His CF name is Bcos1. It was his first post here. It had a title something like "from the perspective of the crew," but is in this thread.

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Old 21-07-2015, 18:41   #114
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

To: BCS01

Welcome aboard the forum!

Thanks for adding your very good post with detailed account of what happened. I know many here have followed the capsize and wondered what happened.

It is shocking to see that a big boat (and a cat) like that can capsize or sink (even if just partially) in just 5 minutes from the time the water is noticed in the hull!

This case is a good reason for any boat's crew to prepare and understand what to do to abandon ship in case it is needed, and to do so in a very short time (less than 5 minutes).

I also noticed that in your post you mentioned the boat eventually sank during salvage (after a few days). By that I suppose you mean it went to the bottom. Is that correct?

Thank you again for adding to the discussion.
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Old 21-07-2015, 20:09   #115
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Originally Posted by mstrebe View Post
I had a poorly-placed (by some previous owner) deprecated seacock on a T get accidentally kicked open when I first purchased my 32' Columbia Sabre (full keel sloop) while sailing in San Diego bay. Within less than five minutes, we had two feet of water in the saloon, and by the time we found and shut off the seacock, water was up to the companion way.

A failed seacock can flood a hull in a remarkably short time. By the timing given by the crew and given the similar volume of one hull of that cat to my boat, I think the seacock theory fits the timeline perfectly.

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Indeed. Anyone who has ever taken out the plug for a large forward looking sonar transducer (around the same diameter as a black hose for a Jabsco heads) to replace it with a blank prior to hauling will have been impressed at the gigantic plume which soaks the surroundings in the half second it takes to get the blank in place…
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Old 21-07-2015, 21:36   #116
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

Hi Bcs01- I'm the co-captain of svTOTEM; that was my photograph of Zebra Moon that was posted to this forum. Thank you for joining in to share what happened. Making a rapid exit from a sinking boat with my children is something I never hope to have to experience; I really can't begin to imagine what that was like for you and glad it sounds like you have a good perspective...and then were able to get on with your holiday!

We are still in Seychelles as well, on our boat TOTEM, and I'd be happy to give you copies of the photographs. I have salvage (from a distance) as well, with tug and what looks like another DYC vessel standing off.

We are anchored in Victoria near the Seychelles Yacht Club, Jamie and I would be interested in meeting up and passing picture files to you over a SeyBrew at the club, or whatever you'd like. Best way to reach us is email, I'll send a PM or drop us a note at sail at sv-totem dot com.

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Old 21-07-2015, 22:38   #117
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

I guess the 440 was a bit old, old enough for the seacocks to be past their minimum mandatory lifetime as specified by EU regulations?

I've read reports of them breaking off in peoples hands, but would they suffer a catastrophic failure if left alone? Perhaps the engine intake seacock was the culprit, badly corroded and under pressure with the motor running.
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Old 22-07-2015, 00:15   #118
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Sigma Sailor, that was ruled out by the post from the one who was on the boat!.

His CF name is Bcos1. It was his first post here. It had a title something like "from the perspective of the crew," but is in this thread.

Ann
Bcos1 confirmed the Lagoon had the 'breakable' type hatches. The guy sitting in the lagoon (pic I posted on page 7) confirmed (I believe on page 3 of this topic) they found a broken escape hatch. You do the math.
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Old 22-07-2015, 01:01   #119
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Bcos1 confirmed the Lagoon had the 'breakable' type hatches. The guy sitting in the lagoon (pic I posted on page 7) confirmed (I believe on page 3 of this topic) they found a broken escape hatch. You do the math.
Still not clear to me. Seems would have needed quite the smack to break this hatch. The diver you included in your photo had happened upon the vessel rather later than the sinking as I understand. Strikes me he is unlikely to have been the first. Said hatch could easily have been broken in the interim as the only reasonable means of access to the hull for official or, erm, "unofficial" reasons. Surely the first person to have entered the port side hull during the incident would have noticed a broken hatch. This was not reported. If the hatch was below the waterline by that time and indeed broken, the ingress would not have been 2000 lpm but would have been many times that… it would have had a current wave ahead of it… 40cm by 40cm is a MASSIVE hole in the hull. I refer you once again to the immersion ingress table I earlier posted (in imperial figures). As you said: You do the math… (not that I rule this scenario out but your confidence in it seems unfounded as yet), but the hint is that at a few inches below the surface this takes the calculation of flow rate (assuming it was not merely a pinhole fracture but why woudl hammer breakable window for escape be laminated) to the tens of thousands of liters per minute! (BTW Cat owners, this is something to !!!!)

http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/Hole...odingtable.pdf
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Old 22-07-2015, 01:37   #120
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

It takes but an unlucky strike of a sharp object to break safety glass (I guess of the NON laminated type of course; otherwise it would not be breakable); see youtube examples posted. This might happen completely unnoticed.

Since the escape hatch is just above the waterline water would be allowed in at a moderate rate in the beginning (the odd wave action). Than the boat will fill up lowering the waterline increasing the flow of water soon escalating to become unmanageable. Isn't that what happened?
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