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Old 21-07-2015, 07:55   #91
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

I have converted the port forward cabin into a work shop.
Two bikes are in the workshop and the two bikes we ride daily are in the water tank compartment. I have to remove the front wheels to make it all fit.
I also have a fifth bike that is specific for the stationary trainer that is on the boat. It is also in the workshop and all wheels get stored up front in the water compartment.
We spin on the stationary bike while on passage, that way we are all warmed up for our arrival at a new port.


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Old 21-07-2015, 08:45   #92
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Originally Posted by Imprezza72 View Post
Then again some float better than others....
Perhaps in super calm conditions… that hull would be continuously swept by waves in a typical seaway.
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Old 21-07-2015, 11:06   #93
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Re: crew perspective on Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

Hi everyone,

As a crew member of the capsized Zebra Moon I can add some of the missing information.
On the other hand, I would be very interested in the photos some of the contributors took of the capsized boat.
I found this forum when searching the web for stories on capsized catamarans. I am astonished how many comments this incident attracted within less than 2 weeks.

To all the pranksters in this forum, I can assure you that German beer was not involved, however the word schnell was used quite a lot.

I confirm Scottsters later statement that this type of Lagoon 440 had fixed emergency hatch windows that cannot be opened/broken without hammer.

The crew consisted of 3 adults and 2 girls that had sailed together many times in the Adriatic, the Aegean, the Baltic and the Azores, and has developed a habit to close all windows and hatches before sailing.

At the time of the incident, two were on the flybridge, the others on the front netting and the front pulpits enjoying the sea. We were off Anse Takamaka going SE under motor, no sails, against the wind to round Pointe de Sud. Sea was a bit choppy, but overall weather conditions fine, probably 4-5 Bft.

Suddenly the seatalk (instruments) failed and we noticed the portside hull was more sluggish to rise. Only seconds later the portside engine stopped. Skipper went down to check, and immediately came back up reporting portside hull already half flooded and ordered everyone to get ready for leaving ship. Ship was now heeling considerable to port. About 2 minutes after first indication that something was wrong the water in portside hull reached level of salon floor.

Then also the starboard engine failed and the skipper decided to move crew into dinghy. By now the boat was heeling heavily to port, water was a foot high in the main salon. Crew and skipper went into dinghy and the boat capsized towards portside shortly after.

The time from the instrument failure on the bridge to the capsizing was probably around 5 minutes. Dinghy with crew and skipper was picked up about 30min later by fishermen who had witnessed this from a distance.

Everyone is unharmed, the charter company provided another boat out of courtesy, we are still cruising the Seychelles this week.

As of now, cause of this accident is unclear. The boat sunk a few days later during salvage.

Any comments, hypotheses or ideas are appreciated with respect to cause or possible prevention, as are photos (from Bahia?, ToT?, SV Totem?) or additional witness reports on the capsized boat.

I can assure everyone that seeing a 44ft yacht go down in minutes and finding yourself and your family in a dinghy is quite unsettling.
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Old 21-07-2015, 11:23   #94
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Re: crew perspective on Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Originally Posted by Bcs01 View Post
Hi everyone,

As a crew member of the capsized Zebra Moon I can add some of the missing information.
Wow.

Thanks for the first hand report. Glad everyone got to safety.
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Old 21-07-2015, 11:35   #95
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

Interesting event for sure, glad it didn't involve anyone getting injured.
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Old 21-07-2015, 11:46   #96
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Re: crew perspective on Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

[/QUOTE]

Any comments, hypotheses or ideas are appreciated with respect to cause or possible prevention, as are photos (from Bahia?, ToT?, SV Totem?) or additional witness reports on the capsized boat.

I can assure everyone that seeing a 44ft yacht go down in minutes and finding yourself and your family in a dinghy is quite unsettling.[/QUOTE]
Did the boat have seadrives? Maybe the port unit fell off or its rubber seal failed.
There may be many scenarios but all should explain the rapid water ingress that needs a large opening.
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Old 21-07-2015, 12:47   #97
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Re: crew perspective on Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcs01 View Post
Hi everyone,

As a crew member of the capsized Zebra Moon I can add some of the missing information.
On the other hand, I would be very interested in the photos some of the contributors took of the capsized boat.
I found this forum when searching the web for stories on capsized catamarans. I am astonished how many comments this incident attracted within less than 2 weeks.

To all the pranksters in this forum, I can assure you that German beer was not involved, however the word schnell was used quite a lot.

I confirm Scottsters later statement that this type of Lagoon 440 had fixed emergency hatch windows that cannot be opened/broken without hammer.

The crew consisted of 3 adults and 2 girls that had sailed together many times in the Adriatic, the Aegean, the Baltic and the Azores, and has developed a habit to close all windows and hatches before sailing.

At the time of the incident, two were on the flybridge, the others on the front netting and the front pulpits enjoying the sea. We were off Anse Takamaka going SE under motor, no sails, against the wind to round Pointe de Sud. Sea was a bit choppy, but overall weather conditions fine, probably 4-5 Bft.

Suddenly the seatalk (instruments) failed and we noticed the portside hull was more sluggish to rise. Only seconds later the portside engine stopped. Skipper went down to check, and immediately came back up reporting portside hull already half flooded and ordered everyone to get ready for leaving ship. Ship was now heeling considerable to port. About 2 minutes after first indication that something was wrong the water in portside hull reached level of salon floor.

Then also the starboard engine failed and the skipper decided to move crew into dinghy. By now the boat was heeling heavily to port, water was a foot high in the main salon. Crew and skipper went into dinghy and the boat capsized towards portside shortly after.

The time from the instrument failure on the bridge to the capsizing was probably around 5 minutes. Dinghy with crew and skipper was picked up about 30min later by fishermen who had witnessed this from a distance.

Everyone is unharmed, the charter company provided another boat out of courtesy, we are still cruising the Seychelles this week.

As of now, cause of this accident is unclear. The boat sunk a few days later during salvage.

Any comments, hypotheses or ideas are appreciated with respect to cause or possible prevention, as are photos (from Bahia?, ToT?, SV Totem?) or additional witness reports on the capsized boat.

I can assure everyone that seeing a 44ft yacht go down in minutes and finding yourself and your family in a dinghy is quite unsettling.
Welcome to CF and thank you for your firsthand report. I take it there was no indication of collision or any "bang" or similar prior to the sudden instrument failure? All that you know is that she began taking on water very rapidly? Two minutes to fill to saloon level is EXTRAORDINARILY fast water ingress. Suggests a really significant hole, rather than some failed and leaking seal. Something must either have popped into the boat (large intake hose on a seacock inadequately secured perhaps) or else a significant structural failure due to impact or other stress in the hull material itself. Two minutes to reach the saloon floor, given the displacement of that vessel would suggest (based upon rapid mental calculation rather than anything more iterated) something like at least 2000 liters per minute flow rate. This suggests around a 3 inch diameter hole 8 inches below the waterline or else in metric an 8cm diameter hole 20cms below the waterline. That is ONE BIG FLOOD.

http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/Hole...odingtable.pdf
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Old 21-07-2015, 13:04   #98
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

Thanks for the report bcs. Very interesting and quite confounding as to how this would occur. Possibly a raw water Intake hose parting from the port engine, filling the engine compartment quickly and then the hull, taking out the batteries and electronics on the way. Either that or a saildrive seal breaking after hitting some debris. It's strange the other engine would stop soon after and the timeframe seems very short as mentioned above.
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Old 21-07-2015, 13:07   #99
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Re: crew perspective on Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Any comments, hypotheses or ideas are appreciated with respect to cause or possible prevention, as are photos (from Bahia?, ToT?, SV Totem?) or additional witness reports on the capsized boat.
.

Name:   440.jpg
Views: 518
Size:  12.1 KB
Got this from someone to arrive on the scene right after the partial sinking.
Good to hear you all are able to tell the story; some story it was!
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Old 21-07-2015, 13:09   #100
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Originally Posted by monte View Post
Thanks for the report bcs. Very interesting and quite confounding as to how this would occur. Possibly a raw water Intake hose parting from the port engine, filling the engine compartment quickly and then the hull, taking out the batteries and electronics on the way. Either that or a saildrive seal breaking after hitting some debris. It's strange the other engine would stop soon after and the timeframe seems very short as mentioned above.
I thought that as well.
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Old 21-07-2015, 13:11   #101
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Re: crew perspective on Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Originally Posted by sigmasailor View Post
Attachment 105758
Got this from someone to arrive on the scene right after the partial sinking.
Good to hear you all are able to tell the story; some story it was!
Hey Sigma. Any better quality pics available (reupload in higher res perhaps?) or more detail of the hull?
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Old 21-07-2015, 13:19   #102
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Re: crew perspective on Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Hey Sigma. Any better quality pics available (reupload in higher res perhaps?) or more detail of the hull?
Click image for larger version

Name:	440_resize.jpg
Views:	254
Size:	244.6 KB
ID:	105759
Yep, attached
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Old 21-07-2015, 13:30   #103
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

Bcs01,

Welcome aboard CF. And thank you so very much for posting your experience of this event.

I'm not an expert on this by any means, but I wonder whether a torn gasket where the saildrive is could let that much water in so fast.....it's not a tidy round hole like muckle flugga was suggesting, but it is something that can fatigue.

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Old 21-07-2015, 14:00   #104
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

Thanks Sigma. Well, aside from being remarkable, that photo does not obviously show any damage visible. What it does show is that the port hull is apparently very much further sunk than is the starboard, and is stern down, suggesting a breach in the hull at least amidships or further aft.

I am going with seacock hose came off. Silent, rapid, and if seacock is at least 1.5 inches, given discrepancies in reporting and back of the envelope calculations would suit very well. Perhaps amidships? My guess is either one of the two port side toilet outlet hoses or else the port side engine raw water intake hose came adrift.

Ann, I didn't mean to suggest only a neat hole, it's just more likely iMHO that a seacock hose simply worked loose (most likely on the motor intake as vibration could account for it quite easily) having been inadequately clipped than a ragged hole from collision or hull failure or seal failure. If the latter would have to be quite dramatically extensive to cause the inflow necessary to match this scenario.
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Old 21-07-2015, 14:07   #105
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

If you read all the posts you will read that the incident was probably caused by sudden and catastrophic failing of an escape hatch (about 40x40 cm hole (right at or even below waterline) in any boat would rapidly flood any boat).
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