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Old 10-07-2015, 16:14   #31
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

FWIW, I think I remember a couple of photos from the Whitsunday area a few years ago after a cyclone or storm event, and they showed a couple of cats in similar postures; bows a bit above the water, the rest submerged. This seems to me to be the natural attitude of a flooded cat due to the weight distribution and the location of likely air chambers. Quite different from the situation where one is rapidly capsized by wind or sea effects, but where there is no flooding prior to inversion, for then air can be trapped in chambers that are not dedicated floatation chambers resulting in a nice level floatation posture as shown in the other post above.

It will be interesting if we can ever get a realistic account of what happened to the German charter vessel.

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Old 11-07-2015, 03:04   #32
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

If the stern sections foundered and the weight of the rig was enough to flip her over on her back that would be pretty scary. Whatever caused the boat to end up in this position is worth studying. There appear to be no emergency escape hatches visible in that picture.
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Old 11-07-2015, 05:34   #33
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Originally Posted by cwyckham View Post
Mark is simply pointing out that, although it didn't sink, you probably won't be very comfortable or safe either in or on this boat.

This isn't an attack on catamarans, just an eye opener when it comes to the myths described above.
Yes, this is exactly what I meant.

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Old 11-07-2015, 09:15   #34
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

My boat is currently located at a Charter hub for the Pacific Northwest.
I have a very good visual of every boat entering and leaving our Marina.
What amazes me is that there are not many more accidents like the one mentioned here.
I shutter every time a new Charter goes out, most, not all, hit something on the way out.
The party starts at the dock and nothing good comes with mixing booze and sailing.
One Charter bragged about having 660 beers onboard for a 7 day and guess what they ran aground, not once but twice.
Drinking and driving not acceptable, neither is drinking and sailing.
There is much more to this story we will never know, what I do know is the boat would not be upside down if I or any other owner of a sailing yacht was on it at the time.
Much more to the story!




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Old 11-07-2015, 09:29   #35
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

I own a 440 and i can not even think how this happened.
We have put ours through some full on conditions and never thought once that the cat was threatened.

Strange happenings here?


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Old 11-07-2015, 10:47   #36
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Originally Posted by dirkdig View Post
I own a 440 and i can not even think how this happened.
We have put ours through some full on conditions and never thought once that the cat was threatened.

Strange happenings here?


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I would be shocked if the investigation into the sinking is an open and not shut case

This will probably be the guilty party


I assume that on the 440 it will be in a similar location as on this powercat?



It was hot, the hatch was opened to let fresh air in. The anchor was pulled up and they started sailing. Everyone was on the bridge deck, so no one noticed the hull was filling.

The conclusion... Charterers


Maybe the escape hatches on charter cats should be fibreglassed over. It's not like they will be out in the open ocean where conditions might cause a capsize.
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Old 11-07-2015, 10:59   #37
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

I think Monte has the story straight but would add that they probably forgot to close one of those quaint little "vindows" downstairs resulting in one hull full of water, extreme list and the weight of the rig then taking the vessel right over.
I agree with 2Wind - I also own a Lagoon 440 and I believe that the only way she would float if full of water would be inverted such as the subject cat with a little air trapped in the fwd compartments.
What is Lagoon thinking re "non-sinkable" when the fwd "watertight" compartments have a drain hole to the bilge, a hatch very low in the fwd bulkhead, a hatch in the deck and a porthole on the inside of each hull. The supposedly "watertight" aft engine compartments also have a hatch to the deck, a drain hole to the bilge and various cable holes etc, somewhat sealed.
Frankly, there are NO watertight compartments in the true sense of the term in the Lagoon 440 and, if upright and full of water, hello Davy Jones.
My previous Schionning Wilderness had numerous, truly sealed, built-in floatation compartments under the soles of each hull, as do some other cats but I am not sure about other model Lagoons.
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Old 11-07-2015, 11:09   #38
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

It's probably not a huge job to make the L440 or any lagoon a bit more watertight. Yes the drains to the bilges compromise the integrity so maybe adding additional bilge pumps to the engine compartment and bow locker might be a good idea. The drain hoses are meant to be left open to let the main bilge pump handle the engine and bow lockers and closed in a hurry if the pump is unable to handle the ingress from either compartment. Not the safest design and I wonder if I would have the presence of mind to close the valve minutes after hitting a shipping container or having the saildrive ripped out by a fishing net (or dinghy painter )
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Old 11-07-2015, 11:54   #39
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

If my Lagoon was compromised the first action is to close the petcocks.
I know where they are and I understand the importance to get them closed, a charter guest would not have a chance.


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Old 11-07-2015, 21:38   #40
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Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

I am amazed to see that the escape hatches can be opened on a Lagoon 440 as they cannot be opened on a Lagoon 450 and need to be broken in the event of a capsize.....

I know from personal experience of having have friends onboard that do not understand boats that even when you advise them what they can and cannot do l still check everything as some people just don't get it, l would not want my escape hatches accessible to being opened other than what they are designed for (escaping through should you need to do so).


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Old 12-07-2015, 01:53   #41
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

Yes the escape hatches open up and would let in a huge volume of water in choppy seas.
Sitting up top with the music going and not being used to how the boat feels it would turn to crap very quick.
I like them as a safety as you can get in and out from both sides should you flip???


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Old 12-07-2015, 02:09   #42
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Originally Posted by TOT View Post
I am amazed to see that the escape hatches can be opened on a Lagoon 440 as they cannot be opened on a Lagoon 450 and need to be broken in the event of a capsize.....

I know from personal experience of having have friends onboard that do not understand boats that even when you advise them what they can and cannot do l still check everything as some people just don't get it, l would not want my escape hatches accessible to being opened other than what they are designed for (escaping through should you need to do so).


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On most modern cats that I know of the emergency hatches are closed and need to be broken in case you need to open them.
I have sailed on several older cats that had handles on the hatch.
Once I have found a friend on board who did open the hatch to watch the fish swimming by. Luckily in a quiet anchorage.
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Old 12-07-2015, 05:03   #43
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

The L450 manual states that the drains to the bilges from the forward and engine compartments should remain closed. I only open mine periodically to see if there is any water in one of the compartments. So far only a forward hatch leak which was easily sealed.

I would really like to know the facts as to what happened here as something as serious as this is unsettling as a Lagoon owner.


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Old 12-07-2015, 05:05   #44
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Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

This photo was taken by S/V Totem today as they sailed past the boat in question.

PS - Jamie (Totem) l hope you don't mind me sharing your photo as l know you guys are at sea.


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Old 12-07-2015, 05:09   #45
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

Totally agree Dave we all need to know what caused this to happen.


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