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Old 22-07-2015, 11:08   #136
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

Many escape hatches are just normal type hatches that are a bit beefier. Lately, manufacturers have begun using fixed lenses with nearby hammers solely because people were coming to grief when they were inadvertently left open (keep in mind that the charter companies do most of the design spec on some of these brands, and they have problems reminding charterers not to leave the hatches open).

"Escape hatch" is a bit of a misnomer. They really should be called "re-entrance hatches" because that is their real purpose and highest probability of use.

If one was caught below in an air-buoyed hull, the stupidest thing to do would be to open a hatch. If one was caught below in a flooded hull, the escape hatch will either be the slowest way out of the boat, or unable to be opened at all.

If one is already outside the boat, they most likely need something from inside, or would rather be inside - and they have the time to access the situation regarding opening a hatch.

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Old 22-07-2015, 11:59   #137
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

I've wondered abut the utility of those hatches.
figure their real use would be in the unlikely event of a fire that blocked any other way of getting out of the boat.
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Old 22-07-2015, 13:22   #138
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

I would think in the case of a fire, the deck hatches would be more convenient and quicker than an escape hatch.

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Old 23-07-2015, 02:03   #139
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Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

I am rather surprised that one would want an openable hatch and one that was openable from inside AND out that can very simply be opened from the outside by ANYONE at anytime the boat is stationary, maybe some are not reading the NUMEROUS threads on CF related to theft from the outside of boats as the openable hatch from the outside would make an excellent potential entry point for any would be thieves.

Make sure your insurance is up to date!!!!

I personally prefer the fixed hatch.

https://youtu.be/ufhyjVBL4Jw


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Old 23-07-2015, 04:22   #140
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Originally Posted by TOT View Post
I am rather surprised that one would want an openable hatch and one that was openable from inside AND out that can very simply be opened from the outside by ANYONE at anytime the boat is stationary, maybe some are not reading the NUMEROUS threads on CF related to theft from the outside of boats as the openable hatch from the outside would make an excellent potential entry point for any would be thieves.

Make sure your insurance is up to date!!!!

I personally prefer the fixed hatch.

https://youtu.be/ufhyjVBL4Jw


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As with all hatches, these too are lockable. Many have a bar across the handles that unlocks them should they turn upside down. Others just lock on the inside like any other hatch.

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Old 23-07-2015, 04:46   #141
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

Lagoon puts chrome plated brass valves on the cats which meet the 5 year rule for CE certification.
They are showing corrosion so i am putting real bronze on every thruhull of which there is about 13


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Old 23-07-2015, 04:48   #142
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

The engine room on a 440 is very much separate and sealed off from the rest of the hull.
You may have very small gaps around hoses but not much.
Monte is spot on re the drain hose and valve, it would take a long time for this to sink a 440


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Old 23-07-2015, 06:02   #143
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

Correct me if I am wrong here, but it seems to me that the design of the engine compartment is not so much about being "air tight" but rather simply being designed to be capable of being holed without allowing water ingress into the remainder of the hull and hence permit sufficient residual buoyancy.The firewall/bulkhead between it and the aft cabin has two notable holes. There is the drain and hose with control valve that allows drainage to the central bilge. I keep mine closed. When closed this is water tight. Then there is the inspection/fire extinguisher access port which is about 3-4 inches in diameter.This sits at a level just above the berth's base and is significantly above the water line. It is definitely not water tight. I'm thinking, that from a nautical engineering perspective, this would be expected to remain above the waterline, even if the engine compartment was flooded. The buoyancy of the large central hull, coupled with normal buoyancy in the watertight bow compartment as well as the buoyancy of the three compartments in the other hull would be expected to be adequate to prevent water rising sufficiently high in the engine compartment to breach the inspection port and avoid seawater flow into the central hull. Further the engine compartment is only about 1.2m long and owing to its taper to the waterline aft effectively displaces less water than its length might suggest. Although perhaps a tenth of the hull length, it will contribute less than 4% of the hull's buoyancy.

Yet in this case the boat went down with lots of water in the central hull. I'd join the voices that suggest a hole in the central compartment, rather than from the engine room. An open escape hatch is not supported by the crew's story. So a failed skin fitting from the heads, the watermaker, saltwater deckwash, generator, or from the speed or depth transducers would seem most likely.

I'm with Dirkdig, and will be replacing my skin fittings at next haul out.
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Old 23-07-2015, 08:39   #144
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Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

As with all hatches, these too are lockable. Many have a bar across the handles that unlocks them should they turn upside down. Others just lock on the inside like any other hatch.

Mark what you suggest works well if it is only the educated that operate the boat, what about the uneducated ?

I know that having made it very clear how to operate a simple toilet on a boat that some people STILL don't understand what can and cannot be put in to it, let alone hoping that such guests have closed an openable hatch (that is my biggest concern).

It has been mentioned in this topic that openable hatches from inside and outside may help (I would never sleep if l thought someone could just open a few hatch handles and enter my boat).

I have spent a lot of time kneeling and watching through my hatch windows whilst at sea and in the hook as l find the view interesting but l would still prefer that they are not openable.

Just personal preference l guess.


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Old 23-07-2015, 10:44   #145
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Mark what you suggest works well if it is only the educated that operate the boat, what about the uneducated ?
If you are pursuing this line of reasoning for an escape hatch, you must extend it to all the deck hatches on your boat, as well as the saloon door.

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Old 23-07-2015, 12:21   #146
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkdig View Post
Lagoon puts chrome plated brass valves on the cats which meet the 5 year rule for CE certification.
They are showing corrosion so i am putting real bronze on every thruhull of which there is about 13


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You make me curious? What is the 5 year CE rule?
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Old 23-07-2015, 16:39   #147
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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You make me curious? What is the 5 year CE rule?
There is no 5 year CE rule. This is just a common gripe about the CE minimum standards for recreational craft. They say (or at least used to say) that below waterline fittings had to have a useful life of not less than 5 years. It is alleged that some builders have taken this to mean that brass is ok below the water line because in general these fittings will last 5 years before they corrode to the point where they are dangerous.

But frankly I don't think the CE directives meant that brass was ok and this is something that people have latched onto to rail against the CE directives in general and certain builders in the EU particularly. But for sure brass fittings below the waterline are not going to last nearly as long as bronze. There is too much zinc in brass fittings and they become sacrificial anodes requiring replacement on a schedule. How often they have to be replaced varies considerably with conditions. And inspection is very difficult and practically impossible. Even bronze fittings have to be replaced at some point.
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Old 23-07-2015, 21:20   #148
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Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

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Here is a 440 thruhull after 10 years.
The valve is chrome brass the rest bronze


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Old 02-08-2015, 04:13   #149
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

Does anyone have any more information on this sinking???


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Old 24-07-2016, 11:17   #150
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Re: Charter Lagoon 440 Takes on water and flips

OK so what happened here? Anybody get pics of the escape hatches open?
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