450: breaking load of main halyard

[Ulstue]

Hello sailors
Does someone know the breaking load of the original main halyard? The original has a diameter of 12mm. Has anyone changed to 10mm Dynema? Does it work with the cleats? Are there disadvantages to use 10mm?

[Catapault]

Cleats are almost always sized correctly to the line. SOME are supposedly supporting multiple sizes, but...

Dropping in size could cause something to slip at the wrong time. A slipping main halyard under high load would be BAD (tm)

I personally would change the cleat if changing line size.

Regards

[REsCat]

Originally Posted by Ulstue

Hello sailors
Does someone know the breaking load of the original main halyard? The original has a diameter of 12mm. Has anyone changed to 10mm Dynema? Does it work with the cleats? Are there disadvantages to use 10mm?

Yale Cordage Vectrus 12 Line | APS : for breaking load info

Are you talking about a line clutch which is the usual means of locking in a halyard, especially on newer sailboats? I have a 10mm vectran 2 to 1 rigged (which includes the outer polyester cover) and it is original spec and is locked by a line clutch but is also "locked" on a self tailing harken electric winch if needed.
Vectran or dyneema is the preferred Halyard guts as it is super high strength and very low stretch and... super, very (usually) expensive!
The above will work with cleats and I don't understand why most "typical" cleats found on lagoons won't handle lines of different diameters? 10-12-14 mm etc usual sizes for halyards,sheets.

Bob

[Ulstue]

The "Halyard-stopper"/ rope clutch of this size have usually a range of several diameters, E.g. Spinnlocks from 8-14 MM, and this, even if they are mounted on a Lagoon.

[Cheechako]

Bigger is also nicer on the hands.

[REsCat]

Originally Posted by Ulstue

The "Halyard-stopper"/ rope clutch of this size have usually a range of several diameters, E.g. Spinnlocks from 8-14 MM, and this, even if they are mounted on a Lagoon.

You were asking about "cleats" not line clutches or "haylard stoppers", two very different animals and you seem to know the answer to part of your questions.

Bob

[Ulstue]

Dear Bob, first I have to thank you for your informations and thougts.
The notice of Cheechako is also very valuable, thank you, too.

Please excuse that my English is not so good. Unfortunately, I do not know all terms on a boat in English.

My question is how high the breaking load of the Halyard of L 450 is, and whether anyone has experience with a Dynema with 10MM diameter, instead of the original 12 MM. Technical specifications of clutches, stopper , cleats or whatever are one thing, practical experience another ...

The high price of Dyneema could be compensated by choosing a smaller diameter. However, the breaking load should be similar.

[Boatguy30]

10mm of solid dyneema core will be storing enough. Do not get a cheaper blended core.

This is assuming a 2:1 halyard. It would be ideal to have a solid dyneema leader that is long enough to reach the first reef as this will handle chafe at the block/ shackle and some familiar with rig high performance mono hulls should be able to fabricate.

[REsCat]

Ulstue, your english used in your original post was flawless and I think a 10mm dyneema or vectran (with cover) line would be more strength than you would ever need ( from my own experience ) and it works perfectly (8+ years) with the spinlocks I have mounted for this application.
I offer this as a Cat with similar loads, SA etc but not as a L450 seasoned owner

Bob

[Emerald Sea]

Catapult is correct, you don't want to put a 10mm line thru your Spinlock XTSs as they are presently setup. Ive tried this for another reason and it slips under heavy loads. As this is your main sail halyard and this is the direction you want to go then you need to change your XTS clutch. Now, if I recall correctly, Spinlock have different size fittings for the XTS i.e. 814s are for 12mm line, so you may be able to find one for the 10mm without changing the complete clutch.

[Stumble]

I am not sure what line they used originally, but assuming is was 12mm sta-set or the equivilant it has a MBL of 9200lbs.

The equivilant size dyneema cored rope like Samson MLX would be 9mm with a MBL of 8,700lbs.

If you switch to an uncovered dyneema then you can almost go down to 6mm (7700mbl) but should probably stick with 8mm at 13,700lbs.


As has been mentioned you need to ensure that the deck hardware you have (winches, and clutches) can handle the reduced size. Since reducing the line size this much can have negative effects on their ability to grab the line. I would not recommend uncovered dyneema here, it can be used, but takes some fancy splicing to add covers where the line hits the winch and clutch, by the time you are done doing that you might as well just use MLX.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by REsCat

Are you talking about a line clutch which is the usual means of locking in a halyard, especially on newer sailboats? I have a 10mm vectran 2 to 1 rigged (which includes the outer polyester cover) and it is original spec and is locked by a line clutch but is also "locked" on a self tailing harken electric winch if needed.

Not a good practice. If anything goes wrong and that winch self starts, you can do a lot of damage.

As a rule, never leave any line "locked" on an electric winch.

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by Ulstue

The "Halyard-stopper"/ rope clutch of this size have usually a range of several diameters, E.g. Spinnlocks from 8-14 MM, and this, even if they are mounted on a Lagoon.

Some do, some don't. You need to check exactly which are on your boat. I can't comment on a 450 directly. However, IF I recall correctly, (it has been a while) you need to adjust them for the size in use, sometimes by changing the inner locking arm for the right size. It isn't a one size fits all in the good clutches/locks.

I've personally seen bad things happen when someone used the incorrect line in lewmar clutches and it slipped under load, so this is an area not to gamble.

Also, you might want to stick with the larger line size, as it is easier on the hands.

Regards

[Ulstue]

These are important hints, thank you.

Because I do not have all documents at home, and have not found the specifications of the halyard, I now have mailed to Lagoon.

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by Catapault

Cleats are almost always sized correctly to the line. SOME are supposedly supporting multiple sizes, but...

Dropping in size could cause something to slip at the wrong time. A slipping main halyard under high load would be BAD (tm)

I personally would change the cleat if changing line size.

Regards

Beg to disagree - clutches have range of efficiency.
The clutches on L450 can accommodate 10mm perfectly.
10mm Dyneema is stronger (i.e. has higher breaking load) than 12mm polyester and has lower stretch coefficient.

Two points remain for consideration:
1. Price.
2. Feel in hand (usually thicker line has better, however it is a personal thing to check)