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Old 26-07-2016, 12:31   #31
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Re: Am I being unreasonable concerning handover of new 450S

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Originally Posted by Krabimike View Post

........ I knew the boat had been struck. ..............

In the contract I had them input that the boat must be 100% functioning and all systems checked out or I was to receive a 100% refund plus expenses. ............

As per some agreement for the boat show. I requested to be informed of all work orders and progress, which has not happen..............

3 days after I made my deposit I requested that I felt I had made a poor decision in buying a boat with lighting damage even though I believe I received somewhat of what I thought was a good price. They refused to let me out.

Just my two cents, and OP, I feel very badly for your predicament, and I hope everything is resolved to your satisfaction. I'm not being 'negative', but realistic about this contract, and so many others we see on these boards.

The OP states that he knew the boat had been struck by lightening before he signed or paid anything. To me, this is not a new boat. I wouldn't even consider buying a boat that was used in a boat show, as I've seen the kind of work some truck drivers do, plus all the bouncing around, let alone a lightening strike.

The OP seemed happy that he received a great price, so probably a substantial discount. Lagoon probably feels that by giving the discount, that they've covered the damage. This is not a new boat, and suggestions that he's entitled to a new boat are unfounded, since when do new boats come with a substantial lightening strike?

The OP apparently bought the boat on emotion, and the discount price, so 3 days later he came to his senses and tried to back out. Obviously, the contract doesn't allow that, that's why we call them contracts.

The OP states that he had two conditions placed in the contract, that the boat was 'checked out and 100% functioning.' If it's 100% functioning, then what's the complaint? The attachment showed that they 'checked things out.'

The OP asks in the title if he's being unreasonable......in my view, yes. If there's one thing to be learned from CF, it's read and understand anything before you sign it, and if the deal looks too good to be true, it probably is.

Again OP, I'm not trying to be negative, I have enormous sympathy for your dilemma, and I hope this works out for you. Good luck to you.
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Old 26-07-2016, 12:34   #32
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Re: Am I being unreasonable concerning handover of new 450S

A64pilot you got me curious about the typical damage done by lightening so I googled...

http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/swlightning.asp

Interesting that BoatUS pay for their customers to haul the boats and check for damage.


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Old 26-07-2016, 12:37   #33
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Re: Am I being unreasonable concerning handover of new 450S

This gets more interesting as the plot thickens. Some questions:
1. Did you buy this boat as a "boat show demonstrator" or did you buy it as a" new from the factory boat" and discover later that it had been used at a boat show?
2. When you paid for the boat in full, did you receive a completed Bill of Sale and if yes, what address was shown on it for the seller? Has title for the boat been transferred to you (is it your property)?
3. Where was the boat show?
4.Who were the parties to the purchase agreement? Where was the purchase order signed by you?


Still thinking
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Old 26-07-2016, 12:39   #34
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Re: Am I being unreasonable concerning handover of new 450S

As a gunkholer, this is my first choice for a boat. I know it's ugly, but it does the job the best.

Would I buy this boat with a $60,000 discount?? Hell no! Don't ask me how I know what truck drivers can do to a delicate piece of equipment. Boats are already quirky enough.

Boat show, and a lightening strike? fuggeddaboutit

I know the OP has come to his senses, and is probably distraught, so I want to say once again, I hope everything works out to your satisfaction, but you may have to make some concessions.

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Old 26-07-2016, 12:49   #35
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Re: Am I being unreasonable concerning handover of new 450S

Singapore is more bureaucratic than the French. The other solution is to go higher up the food chain. In an authoritarian regime, best to start at the top. Hopefully you have not actually bought the boat yet. You need to talk to the head of the company who made the boat.
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Old 26-07-2016, 12:54   #36
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Re: Am I being unreasonable concerning handover of new 450S

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Originally Posted by JOHNMARDALL View Post
This gets more interesting as the plot thickens. Some questions:
1. Did you buy this boat as a "boat show demonstrator" or did you buy it as a" new from the factory boat" and discover later that it had been used at a boat show?
2. When you paid for the boat in full, did you receive a completed Bill of Sale and if yes, what address was shown on it for the seller? Has title for the boat been transferred to you (is it your property)?
3. Where was the boat show?
4.Who were the parties to the purchase agreement? Where was the purchase order signed by you?


Still thinking
John Mardall


He states in his OP that it was shown at the Singapore Boat Show. It sat 4 or 5 months in the water, probably waiting for a buyer, and I guess this is when it was struck by lightening. He says he was aware of all of this when he signed.

My point is directed to the posters above, and not the OP. In my view, just my opinion, and I don't want to argue with anyone, this was not a new boat.
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Old 26-07-2016, 12:55   #37
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Re: Am I being unreasonable concerning handover of new 450S

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Singapore is more bureaucratic than the French. The other solution is to go higher up the food chain. In an authoritarian regime, best to start at the top. Hopefully you have not actually bought the boat yet. You need to talk to the head of the company who made the boat.


He says it's paid for in full.
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Old 26-07-2016, 12:56   #38
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Re: Am I being unreasonable concerning handover of new 450S

I think the questions you ask you should have asked them, at the company, before agreeing the delivery / location / takeover. Now it is a bit late.

You are right when it comes to the company acting in a sub standard way, but that's what you are stuck with, unless you want lawyers to look at the whole thing.

I sound harsh perhaps but I think next time buy locally, where you know, and can exercise, your rights.

Cheers,
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Old 26-07-2016, 13:01   #39
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Re: Am I being unreasonable concerning handover of new 450S

Does the OP's boat come with the exact same new boat warranty that other Lagoons receive,........that are 'new'? If not, then it's not a new boat.
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Old 26-07-2016, 13:04   #40
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Re: Am I being unreasonable concerning handover of new 450S

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I think the questions you ask you should have asked them, at the company, before agreeing the delivery / location / takeover. Now it is a bit late.

You are right when it comes to the company acting in a sub standard way, but that's what you are stuck with, unless you want lawyers to look at the whole thing.

I sound harsh perhaps but I think next time buy locally, where you know, and can exercise, your rights.

Cheers,
b.
Without knowing what the contract says, I think it's hard to tell if the company is acting in a sub-standard way.
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Old 26-07-2016, 13:32   #41
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Re: Am I being unreasonable concerning handover of new 450S

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Originally Posted by Krabimike View Post
I purchased a new 2016 450S from Simpson Marine Phuket. However the boat was brought into Singapore by ship from France, used at the Singapore boat show.
I didn't read all the thread. But to me it sounds like:

You paid for a new boat and now it is used and damaged.
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Old 26-07-2016, 14:02   #42
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Re: Am I being unreasonable concerning handover of new 450S

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Without knowing what the contract says, I think it's hard to tell if the company is acting in a sub-standard way.
I can hear you.

Contracts do not create standards. Contracts are expected to apply and follow standards. Standards are set by the industry, in cooperation and discussion with all involved parties.

If a test sail/motor are not part of the standard, then the buyer got the boat from the wrong industry.

Some time back my friend was buying a new boat from a major European yard. The take-over process started on Monday and ended (with broad smiles) on Friday. They were out on the water every day to iron out the details and make the new owner felt very comfortable with all systems on board.

Maybe in Singapore standards are different. Maybe they sell Lagoons 450 like we sell TV sets in Europe: 20 units each day, grab yours and that's that. Wrong place to buy a boat then.

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Old 26-07-2016, 14:41   #43
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Re: Am I being unreasonable concerning handover of new 450S

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Maybe in Singapore standards are different. Maybe they sell Lagoons 450 like we sell TV sets in Europe: 20 units each day, grab yours and that's that. Wrong place to buy a boat then.
That could be the Key. Find out what your consumer rights are where you paid for it and see how that can be applied to your current situation. If you can start by telling them that you legally have the right to expect (insert any redress here), they may stop giving you the runaround? As from your comments above , I'm convinced you really want this to work out, I suspect being savvy to their laws could put you in a stronger position to achieve satisfaction (hey, then we could help go through the "good names" ceremony for her! ) Don't forget to tell us the outcome
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Old 26-07-2016, 15:01   #44
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Re: Am I being unreasonable concerning handover of new 450S

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Neptune Gear's advice regarding requesting a new vessel is sound. Obviously the vendor will not be pleased but the boat should be covered by insurance, if not then that was a poor decision by the vendor but not having insurance in this situation is highly unusually. If their approach is too "self-insure" well guess they get to file a claim on their own behalf.

Regardless, the vessel is of lesser value than you negotiated. It can take a year or two before lightning damage reveals itself so no way to ensure yourself against these concerns if accepting vessel now. And your insurance may want to exclude any resulting damage or worse not insure the vessel.

Your gut is attempting to prevent a major error from occurring. Listen to your gut.

Reflect back on why you made the purchase decision that you did. The pitfalls of accepting the vessel will all fall on you once you've accepted. You obviously wanted to buy a new boat, one reason probably is it's condition. Require a new vessel.


Im with you and Neptunes Gear. What insurance was held on the boat at the time of the lightning strike? What written assurances are being offered? Backed by whom? The factory? I would also be requesting the factory stood behind their product......
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Old 26-07-2016, 16:29   #45
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Re: Am I being unreasonable concerning handover of new 450S

Mike, I had your predicament last fall. I purchased a new boat that was being used at the boat show in the fall. The boat came in about 6 weeks before the show. I wanted to take the boat out prior to the show and familiarize myself before the show. I was told I could not do this! I was not allowed to use or go on my boat. I was told that it wasn't ready, they had to clean it, all sorts of excuses. I told them I wasn't going to sail around the world, just go up the bay ,learn the engines, electronic, etc. Told them I would not use it within a week of the show. Still wouldn't give me permission. Was at the point of getting a sheriff and taking the boat to another marina just out of spite. It was my boat, I had paid, had a bill of sale. Agreed to letting them use it at the boat show, and would honor that. In the end I chilled out, didn't want this to ruin a great deal I got on a great boat just because the lagoon north American manager is a dick.

Your boat should be delivered to you in NEW condition. I believe lagoon will honor this. Be persistent.

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