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Old 05-05-2015, 03:57   #1
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380 Reefing setup - too much friction

I've been sailing my 380 for a year now and I've consistently had issues with the reefing setup. Everything works fine, but the reefing lines come from the cleats at the helm to the mast. Where they go through a block attached to the mast then up to a ring attached to the mast, then through a plastic reefing point on the luff of the sail, then through a block at the front of the boom, to a block at the rear of the boom, to a cringle reefing point on the leech of the sail, then tied to the boom. The aggregate amount of friction makes the reefing lines always very difficult to either ease or pull in. I believe the main culprit to be the metal ring attached to the mast that it goes through as if it was a block. Sometimes when I'm putting up the mainsail the reefing lines will not run without help (me pulling the lines through the blocks at the mast).

Not a major issue, more of an annoyance but I'm interested if anyone else has this issue on their 380 or has done anything to make it easier?
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Old 05-05-2015, 04:46   #2
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Re: 380 Reefing setup - too much friction

Just reading about the complexity of said setup gives me nightmares. Ugh!

You'd likely be FAR better served by going to a 2-line (per reef) reefing setup. With either a block, or low friction ring at each cringle, fore & aft. There are some great web on blocks available for clew reefing cringles, & in terms of the tack, you can use a low friction ring in place of the traditional heavy stainless rings hung on webbing, on either side of the tack cringles.
And if you like, you can use low friction rings, similarly hung through the clew reef cringles as well. Or tying/shackling on a standard block there is an option also (ditto at the tack).

Just make sure to put an extra chafe patch on the sail anywhere which the block or ring may rub up against it. And if you want to be super, pro-active, you can put the block or ring inside of a protective, padded, anti-chafe sleeve/sock.

Also, use bare spectra where the line runs through the blocks, or rings, because it's slipperiness makes things go a Lot more smoothly, & thus needing of less effort on your part.
It's easy to rig short, semi-disposable Spectra pennants for this part of each reefing line. Thus you aren't replacing a whole reefing line, when this section of it begins to get a little ragged around the edges.

And I'd Strongly recommend "painting" the bare Spectra with Maxi-Jacket/Maxi-Jacket II or similar, for enhanced line life.
It's essentially what comes on most quality lines from the factory, & is what gives them that slick feel, as well as assisting them in not snagging on things. Be it anchor lines, or high tech running rigging.
Just compare Home Depot (or cheaper even) 3-strand line, to say New England Ropes 3-strand line, & you'll see & feel the difference.
It makes a big difference in a line's lifespan... as touted by, New England Ropes, amongst others.
Samson ropes calls it Samthane (coating).

If it helps, I get into a bit more of the specifics on how to make the "semi-disposable" reefing pennants, here http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/ind...5106&p=4922277
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Old 05-05-2015, 06:07   #3
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Re: 380 Reefing setup - too much friction

On the 440, the main sail is a bit big for single line reefing. I've opted to manually secure the reef at the luff (it came with large snap shackle on webbing from the cringle but I simply use 12mm double braid that remains in place for R1 and R2 but not R3 and tie off) and to use a single line to the clue reefing blocks to R1 and R2. This means I or someone has to go to the mast base, but the AP, motor and steering to a zero wind angle makes this easy single handed and in 25-30kts.
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Old 05-05-2015, 06:29   #4
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Re: 380 Reefing setup - too much friction

Something seems to be rigged wrong. The metal ring on the boom was never intended to be used as a block. The ring should be the attach point for the bitter end of the reef lines that runs up to the block attached to the reef points on the main.
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Old 05-05-2015, 07:47   #5
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Re: 380 Reefing setup - too much friction

The ring is on the mast and yes the 1st and 2nd reefing lines run through it. You could easily run them through a low friction ring instead and tie the ring to the steel ring. Yes there is friction in the system but it's not really designed to work under a load anyway. It's simply to secure the sail when reefed. We have cotton thread to mark the main halyard and marks on the reefing lines to show when it is set correctly. This helps a bit when reefing. Shaking out the reefs does require going slow with the halyard and making sure the reefing lines are free to run. I'd try the low friction block first and see if that helps things. Also check the reefing lines aren't binding around the topping lift. Occasionally the riggers route them on the wrong side when they are commissioning. We raise the boom with the topping lift to take the weight off the reefing lines when reefing. All the reefing lines need is pulling by hand and a slight winch at the end, then ease the topping lift. The jam cleats also add some friction so make sure they are fully open, not just lifted.
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Old 05-05-2015, 11:55   #6
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Re: 380 Reefing setup - too much friction

One thing that you can do to reduce friction is to change to Spectra/Dyneema single braid reefing lines. I have replaced mine with Samson Amsteel Blue 1/4" single braid, to which I added a cover to the part of the line that runs through the jammer when the reef is in. It made a HUGE difference.
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Old 05-05-2015, 12:33   #7
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Re: 380 Reefing setup - too much friction

Interesting PAF, did you only put a cover on the small section that goes under the jammer? Does it all slide through the blocks ok?
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Old 05-05-2015, 12:48   #8
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Re: 380 Reefing setup - too much friction

I should actually have said that it may be required to add a cover. I haven't installed covers yet, and my Garhauer jammers works perfectly on the 1/4" Amsteel Blue. It hasn't slipped yet. As for the winch, I need at least 4 or 5 turns around the drum, but otherwise works well, and the self-tailing works fine too.

If a cover is needed, it is typically added to the section that will be clamped down by the jammer when the reef is taken in plus the section that will go around the winch. It is spliced into the single braid line. Racers do that all the time to save weight.

It runs in the blocks fine because you go down in size as well. In my case, I went from 7/16 double braid to 1/4" Spectra single braid, and it's stronger than the original. The part with the cover is about equivalent to 7/16".
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Old 05-05-2015, 14:48   #9
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Re: 380 Reefing setup - too much friction

[QUOTE=Zoid;1817829]...to a ring attached to the mast, then through a plastic reefing point on the luff of the sail, ... cringle reefing point on the leech of the sail, then tied to the boom. ...
Sometimes when I'm putting up the mainsail the reefing lines will not run without help (me pulling the lines through the blocks at the mast).
QUOTE]
1. Try to install block in every point where the line goes through a ring or cringle (a block at a cringle will change the side of the sail on which the line goes back).
2. even then, you may need to manually help the lines to get out when raising sail. However, this will happen only if you have reefed the sail on the last occasion before current raise (what I mean, that under normal collapse of the sail, there is no need to pull on the reefing lines. let the out and just throw inside the lazy at the end of the take-down).
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Old 05-05-2015, 17:16   #10
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Re: 380 Reefing setup - too much friction

Quote:
Originally Posted by monte View Post
Interesting PAF, did you only put a cover on the small section that goes under the jammer? Does it all slide through the blocks ok?
Spectra sans cover goes through rings, & blocks like a hockey puck across ice, fired out of the main gun of a tank.


Read the link which I put in the other post in this thread, it'll be both educational, & beneficial to your wallet. That, & the info in said post ain't bad neither.
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Old 06-05-2015, 01:08   #11
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Re: 380 Reefing setup - too much friction

interesting, i am dealing with the same issue.

Tested new approach last week which seem fine so far.

To reef, mark point on halyard where reefing point is say 15 cm higher than normally.

Lock halyard at that point.

Let the sail drop.

Pull reefing line in by hand and winching. Notice no chafing point.

Tighten further by letting main down bit extra say another 10cm , tighten reefing line and again if feel necessary.

So far had no problems with this issue. No chafe.

I am expecting shaking reef to be easier also but not tried yet.

see if this one sticks.
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