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FamilyVan · 25-08-2015, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Annapolis

Family Van, I was not referring to you except for the part about doing a disservice by having to clean bilges or heads--it come with the territory sometimes.. Your posts are often very informative too. I don't know what it means to slag, and I have not translated 500 CDN to USD. Things get out of hand too easily on online forums. Bottom line for me? $250 to $300 USD per day is way too low. When others charge that low, it really makes it difficult to earn a living and to enter or stay in this labor market. Those "competitors" who do it as a hobby or for retirement are generally not as reliable or efficient or devoted as those who do it for a living. I said "generally" as I am not painting with a broad brush here. If the owner of a yacht (no average joe ..ahem) thinks my quote is too high, he can go elsewhere...you generally get what you pay for but I don't do what I do so they can enjoy cruising around unless they pay me a reasonable fee. Otherwise I wont even be able to afford anything in my bowl much less rice.

Cheers :beer: no insult intended

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**boatman61** · 25-08-2015, 20:00

No 'Pissing Contest' here mate... my bladder was shot years ago and straight down is as far as it goes..
As for 'Professional'.. that's a self imposed label.. there aint no Uni Course for delivery skippers like Law, Medicine etc..

And as for the 'Marine Service Provider' dig... funny enough I had one of those Bitching behind the scenes a while back and causing me grief on here coz I was free-lancing..
Hence my current open link and annual sub to CF..
Don't worry tho' dear prospective client.. its not tagged onto every trip I do...

As it happens 80% of those boats delivered on my 'site'... (cheap WordPress.. also not tagged on) are/were owned by CF members.. So.. seems 'someone' thought I was stealing from their 'Rice Bowl'.
Paul... its and ancient Oriental expression used by that lot often referred too by non European white folk as Gooks and Rag-Heads.
A guy I was doing an 'Owner Assist' for once referred to us skippers as 'Whores of the Sea'..

And.. just like any professional whores.. the quality of the shag you get lies not in the price you pay.. its in the service and skills provided...

FamilyVan · 25-08-2015, 20:03

I would like to defend Boatmans post as well. I get the impression he is a very very competent sailor.

I think different people might charge different rates based on competency, need and the availability of work?

My rates were based on what it would cost me to take a day off work, but maybe boatman's prices are lower because he has a military pension or because he wants to be free of bs or for a lot of different reasons he doesn't chose to express online?

I know I certainly don't express on CF why I no longer deliver.

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FamilyVan · 25-08-2015, 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steady Hand

Since so many Delivery captains are involved in this thread, I have a question for you all:

Does your daily fee (e.g. $300/day) include payment to any Crew?

Or, is that additional if the Delivery Captain says he has or will use Crew?

If extra, how much does the Boat Owner have to pay for the Crew, and is that paid directly from Boat Owner to Crew or is it through the Delivery Captain? Is it a fixed fee or a per diem fee?

I recognize that many Delivery Captains say to the Boat Owner they will provide their own Crew for the delivery voyage, and that some Delivery Captains do deliveries singlehanded.

Steady, I feel I'm ill equipped to answer this question as I am a former delivery Captain (quit sailing May 2015). If I was skipper, I would generally charge my wage only and have the owner pay for the rest of the crew.

However, I frequently worked with a more experienced Captain. I would set up the package where he got the lions share and I would get a mates rate. Occasionally, he would put the package together and I would receive mates rate.

The weird thing is, some times he would set up the deal and have me sail as master if there was exceptionally difficult ship handling expected (my specialty).

Lots of ways to skin a cat. My partner died this winter, and I got out of the sailing business for unrelated reasons

He of course charged a higher daily rate than I being a true master mariner, while I only hold a chief mate foreign going and a domestic masters/500 ton stcw licence.

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**boatman61** · 25-08-2015, 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Annapolis

I have no idea whether or not Boatman is a competent sailor and do not really care. It's not my business. Maybe he can sail circles around me. Maybe he's passed more sea buoys than I've passed 7-11's. Maybe he's rung more salt water out of his socks than could fill the Monterey Aquarium. I don't see any need to defend an insulting and uncivil poster on here and it would be nice if the moderators would step in when expletives are used and insults are hurled. He's entitled to his opinion but expressing it in his unique and interesting manner would be fine if he'd refrain from being so darn insulting--as he was. I also have no reason to doubt that he shot his bladder years ago but I don't think it's anything to brag about.

Oh Please... Stop... my stomachs hurting now...

I keep telling everyone.. I am a seaman.. that's why I'm cheap.. and not being a 'sailor' means my bladders about all I've left to brag about..
Now if I lived in a country where every Jack and his second cousin can call themselves Captain once they get the most basic qualifications.. maybe I would raise my fees..
but here in Portugal where I am a resident the minimum wage is just over 500euro/month..
By these standards I'm definitely not cheap..

Cap Erict3 · 25-08-2015, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Annapolis

I have no idea whether or not Boatman is a competent sailor and do not really care. It's not my business. Maybe he can sail circles around me. Maybe he's passed more sea buoys than I've passed 7-11's. Maybe he's rung more salt water out of his socks than could fill the Monterey Aquarium. I don't see any need to defend an insulting and uncivil poster on here and it would be nice if the moderators would step in when expletives are used and insults are hurled. He's entitled to his opinion but expressing it in his unique and interesting manner would be fine if he'd refrain from being so darn insulting--as he was. I also have no reason to doubt that he shot his bladder years ago but I don't think it's anything to brag about.

Delivery rates aside, you ought to rethink your headspace rental fee. A couple of offhand remarks seem to have taken you aways off course.

Ex scientia tridens and all that.

------------------------------
Looking for another pretty place to work on the boat.

**Lepke** · 25-08-2015, 21:22

The North Pacific can be a dream killer for new sailors. As others have said, most of the time you're going against the prevailing winds and seas. I worked this area much of my life including commercial fishing and commercial boat delivery to Alaska for California builders. If time is not an issue, you can cruise between ports in good weather. But when paying a captain, time is money. I have seen hired "experienced" captains give up facing the usual NW weather. I finished some of the deliveries.
Close to you: Pacific Boat Brokers Inc. has one of the best West Coast web sites and has many Canadian and US boats. They have good people, too.
I no longer do deliveries, but do know licensed captains at the usual rates.

model 10 · 29-08-2015, 19:34

How much would you charge to bring my sailboat with a dead engine from Rio Dulce Guatemala to Florida?

**boatman61** · 29-08-2015, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy

How much would you charge to bring my sailboat with a dead engine from Rio Dulce Guatemala to Florida?

If your prepared to strap a working 15hp long shaft on the back I'll give you a quote.. + expenses

PS; E or W coast..?
Macho.. but not stupid..lol.

Tayana42 · 30-08-2015, 09:17

Boatman61, I love your no nonsense attitude and straight talk. The deliveries you have shared on CF demonstrate that you actually do what you say!

S/V B'Shert

**boatman61** · 31-08-2015, 03:17

ROFLMFAO....

I see the TIKI 26 delivery and picture crossed some kinda line..

**weavis** · 31-08-2015, 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Annapolis

I appreciate Don's thoughts but I have to disagree with him on a number of items. 1. Most insurance companies do require a license, at least in my experience. 2. I am not aware of any studies or statistic that show anything at all about the license and risk reduction but I am always asked to show proof of the license. 3. License or not, there is a huge difference between a retiree/hobbyist/sea hobo when it comes to entrusting your boat as opposed to hiring a professional whose livelihood depends on providing just that--a professional service. I won't go into details but I've seen enough and heard enough to know that this is usually true. A professional will be more reliable, efficient, trained, equipped and prepared in most cases than will the hobbyist or retiree..and yes, Don is correct that If he and others who are not really doing this for their living are doing this at a low fee-an unprofessional rate, if you will, he and others do keep rates down and make it harder for we professionals to earn a living. He may be more experienced than am I (there will always be someone more experienced) but if so, why will he work for less than I will work? In the long run, this lowers the standards and prestige of the profession and hurts the labor market for everyone--owners and professionals because it makes it less attractive and more difficult to earn a living. If owners want a labor market, they must be willing to pay professionals a professional price to do a professional job. The same is true for architects, accountants, lawyers, doctors, engineers etc....so why not boat captains? Plenty of people could draw a house, fill out papers, reset your bones, do your taxes....and those that do it professionally, as I sad before, earn in an hour what some boat captains will charge for a day--a 24 hour day--away from home--and at risk! They work in offices, go home at night and don't have to clean bilge pumps or heads.

Goodness.

Im a professional. I charge less than my colleagues. I have a FULL client load and give equal or better service than they do. How do I know? My results are higher than the average.

Firstly, I charge what I think the market I aim for will sustain and keep me in business and pay my office, my staff, my taxes and profits. Secondly I dont give a rats if someone is cheaper than me. I dont advertise and all my clients are by word of mouth, ie based on results.

'Lowering the standard for professional services?' Perhaps the professional services cost too much more like.

I have no idea who you are Paul but I do know that this continued and frequent complaining regarding "retiree/hobbyist/sea hobo" is basically aimed at one member of CF whom, sadly for you IS professionally qualified with aspects of his personality that do not fit your criteria of up front professional behavior.

when did you become God and insist on all aspects of your opinion become the standard for delivery captains? When did your pricing structure become the average?

I can tell you right now that if I had to pay the fees you charge, you would have been out of business a long time ago. Permanently.

Not only that, your whinging in public has turned a lot of people off. Im not here to support your lifestyle or standard of living, Im here to get a professional service at a price that suits me and is completed in a professional manner. ie the boat is delivered in good order and good time depending on external circumstances.

My hired delivery crew will be authorised by my Insurance company as deemed fit for the purpose, and they will have a list of happy customers willing to give references and endorsements.

My delivery crew will ask what is required, and I will outline EVERYTHING. We will then discuss their requirements in line with Insurance requirements and then a price will be discussed. My hired delivery crew will have given me a price that will not cause resentment due to being not in line with 'professional' charges, but based on their estimates and experience and what they want for the trip.

My delivery crew of choice will be "professionally qualified". Have lots of experience and be competent seamen and women and the final choice will be down to................... yes, price or a requirement that I want over another persons abilities. I will be entrusting my vessel to their care, and at the end of the day if it sinks in a storm, it will have cost me a darned sight less for getting into that position for which ANY professional captain would not have been able to prevent.

I have the utmost confidence in people I have hired in the past for assuming command of my vessels. There are a number of non delivery professionals here on CF that I also have that confidence in. They are good experienced sailors, and for those I dont know personally that I attribute that status too, I do personally know people who know them and have ratified my assessment.

NO ONE HAS TO PAY PRICES THEY DONT AGREE WITH. Unless there is no other choice. Fortunately we have a choice in deliveries.

You have dirtied your bib with me on CF. Its a repetitive and accusatory and demeaning path you tread to discredit a member here. Not good, not good at all.

So very disappointed in a professional.

undercutter · 31-08-2015, 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DominoX

Your rates are actually too low by far to compensate for the risk/effort you put in.

The captain 3000t licsence/surveyor that has helped me out in the past charges $800.00/dy plus expenses/travel costs, etc. and yes he will clean bilges, scrub hulls, or other more critical tasks as well. Best money I ever spent.