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Old 22-06-2011, 10:41   #1
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Taiwan to Philippines

Ahoy threadmates,

If my current, boat buying deal goes through, as of mid July, I will need one or two experienced hands to sail from Kaohsiung down to Kenting on a liesurely exploration of the scenic, SW Taiwan coast and interior. From there we will sail south to Aparri (northern most PI port of entry) via the Batanes Islands, where we can shelter in transit, if necessary.

The boat is a MacGregor 26 not made for ocean passages, but the longest passage between harbors should only be about 65 miles.

From Aparri, I will either trailer the boat south to Subic or Batangas, or I will sail her to one of these locations. This decision will depend largely on the experience and willingness of the crew and on the prevailing weather.

If interested, please send me a private message.

Regards to all,

G2L
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Old 25-06-2011, 09:52   #2
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Re: Taiwan to Philippines ...

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but it's about 200Nm from Kenting to Aparri. When I lived in Kaohsiung, I considered buying a boat & making that run, until I went on an overnight from Kaohsiung to a local island. The beam on my Mac26 was 8', but it was an "S" model. If your beam is the same, you may be able to remove your rub-rail & fit it into a container, with about an inch per side to spare.
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Old 26-06-2011, 12:28   #3
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Re: Taiwan to Philippines ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bangkaboat View Post
I don't mean to burst your bubble, but it's about 200Nm from Kenting to Aparri. When I lived in Kaohsiung, I considered buying a boat & making that run, until I went on an overnight from Kaohsiung to a local island. The beam on my Mac26 was 8', but it was an "S" model. If your beam is the same, you may be able to remove your rub-rail & fit it into a container, with about an inch per side to spare.
Thanks mate,

Perhaps your stats are correct given the overall mileage, put the passages are a lot less. I've heard the horrors stories, but one more can't hurt.

Definitely need to be "sober" if I am going to attempt such a trip. : )

Best regards,

G2L
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Old 26-06-2011, 17:48   #4
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Re: Taiwan to Philippines ...

LOL, OK, so you're going ahead with this, I hear you. Get some decent charts when you can, the SW coast of Taiwan has a fairly extensive series of hidden reefs. When you do your shakedown, if you decide to sail over to Liu-Ch'iu Island, there is much hidden coral, as well, especially on the west side of the island, off the beach. Don't try & run ashore there, I still have scars on my knee from smacking the reef 20 years ago. I assume you're planning on using the fishing harbour in Kenting that is right beside Kenting National Park - the only place where there was a marina when I was last there - and you'll want to watch your entry/exit as there are coral reefs on each side. When you decide to depart Kenting for Aparri, you might want to time for offshore winds. The currents in this crossing are reasonably strong & the seas are usually confused in the area, because of convergence from the Strait & Philippine Sea.

According to my brother-in-law, one of our fishboat captains,
Itbayat is the first island you'll reach that has any kind of protection, but it's more than 100Nm from Kenting & doesn't really have much protection, just more than the Islets.

Best of luck with this.
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Old 27-06-2011, 06:55   #5
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On the Actual Route, Itbayat, etc - Re: Taiwan to Philippines ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bangkaboat View Post
LOL, OK, so you're going ahead with this, I hear you. Get some decent charts when you can, the SW coast of Taiwan has a fairly extensive series of hidden reefs. When you do your shakedown, if you decide to sail over to Liu-Ch'iu Island, there is much hidden coral, as well, especially on the west side of the island, off the beach. Don't try & run ashore there, I still have scars on my knee from smacking the reef 20 years ago. I assume you're planning on using the fishing harbour in Kenting that is right beside Kenting National Park - the only place where there was a marina when I was last there - and you'll want to watch your entry/exit as there are coral reefs on each side. When you decide to depart Kenting for Aparri, you might want to time for offshore winds. The currents in this crossing are reasonably strong & the seas are usually confused in the area, because of convergence from the Strait & Philippine Sea.

According to my brother-in-law, one of our fishboat captains,
Itbayat is the first island you'll reach that has any kind of protection, but it's more than 100Nm from Kenting & doesn't really have much protection, just more than the Islets.

Best of luck with this.
Firstly, I am not sure that I am "going ahead with this". That will depend on a final deal with the seller and how much the Taiwanese customs folks will charge me to ship my boat into Taiwan from HK, then clear out under sail.

Secondly, while I cite "Kenting" as my port of departure, that will not actually be the case. I hope to clear out of Kenting, but skip down the coast to the southernly most cove I can find on Taiwan, and tie up there before finally leaving Taiwan coastal waters. I have heard that this is possible.

Thirdly, I am glad you brought up Itbayat. I did not want to mention it because the island, like the entire SW coast of Taiwan, is surrounded by reefs, but I have looked at them up close from satellite images and it seems that there are passages through the Itbayat reef on the SW side of the island, and it also seems that these cuts in the reef would let a beachable boat like the Mac 26 pull up on a sandy beach, tie to a coco tree and throw an achor out the back, thus garnering at least minimal protection from the NE monsoon.

My thought is that, from the southernmost tip of Taiwan, I am only about 65 miles from Itbayat and at least minimal protection against any unpredictable change in the weather. The passage to Basco is maybe another 20 miles and to Calayan from there, I estimate to be about 45 miles. Then, on to Aparri, maybe another 40? I say, 170 in total.

All of this is in the range of a serious weekender like the Mac 26, given that no typoon is in store. You know the area much better than I, so tell me what you think.

Best regards,

G2L
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Old 27-06-2011, 17:54   #6
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Re: Taiwan to Philippines ...

G2L,
in consideration of Itbayat; there are no beaches or low-lying shore-lines. It is a raised coral reef. Even the main "port" has nothing more than a cemented ramp, with a steep incline. I'm attaching a couple of links worth viewing, here:
ITBAYAT ISLAND SABTANG ISLAND VIRGIN PARADISE
Island municipality of Itbayat is the largest of the three inhabited islands that compose the province of Batanes. It is also the northernmost municipality in the Philippines, located only over 200 kilometers from the southernmost tip of Taiwan.

Excellent description of main port at Itbayat with photos:
To Be In Itbayat,*Or*Not*To*Be*In*Itbayat? | noelonfilm

Batanes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Itbayat Island

Roadtrip sa Pinas: Batanes Itinerary

I believe that the distance measurements reported in these links may be to Kenting, as I get a measurement from the tip of Taiwan as 108Nm on my electronic chart. I'm digging through my basement today to find my old paper charts, but just over 100Nm seems familiar from those days when I considered this same trip.

Man, there has to be an easier way to get a boat to The Philippines! Do you have any friends/in-laws in customs? Maybe you could strip a Mac down to hull & deck & ship it as "used boat parts", then ship the rig, etc., separately, as "used boat parts". Aren't you/we allowed to import a container with up to $7,000 worth of stuff? I'll dig around & see what I can find & call a few old friends. I'd hate to see you take such a risk - from my own perspective - just to get a boat.
Mike
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Old 28-06-2011, 06:16   #7
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July Crossing Seems No Great Risk, Given Proper Planning

Quote:
Originally Posted by bangkaboat View Post
G2L,
in consideration of Itbayat; there are no beaches or low-lying shore-lines. It is a raised coral reef. Even the main "port" has nothing more than a cemented ramp, with a steep incline. I'm attaching a couple of links worth viewing, here:
ITBAYAT ISLAND SABTANG ISLAND VIRGIN PARADISE
Island municipality of Itbayat is the largest of the three inhabited islands that compose the province of Batanes. It is also the northernmost municipality in the Philippines, located only over 200 kilometers from the southernmost tip of Taiwan.

Excellent description of main port at Itbayat with photos:
To Be In Itbayat,*Or*Not*To*Be*In*Itbayat? | noelonfilm

Batanes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Itbayat Island

Roadtrip sa Pinas: Batanes Itinerary

I believe that the distance measurements reported in these links may be to Kenting, as I get a measurement from the tip of Taiwan as 108Nm on my electronic chart. I'm digging through my basement today to find my old paper charts, but just over 100Nm seems familiar from those days when I considered this same trip.

Man, there has to be an easier way to get a boat to The Philippines! Do you have any friends/in-laws in customs? Maybe you could strip a Mac down to hull & deck & ship it as "used boat parts", then ship the rig, etc., separately, as "used boat parts". Aren't you/we allowed to import a container with up to $7,000 worth of stuff? I'll dig around & see what I can find & call a few old friends. I'd hate to see you take such a risk - from my own perspective - just to get a boat.
Mike
Mike,

Will check my satellite map; perhaps I was referring to a rather small island between Itbayat and Basco which is actually considered part of Itbayat. Will check on the name and let you know. After checking your photos and attachments, it is obvious that the island I have in mind is not the main island of Itbayat.

Also, on your "used parts" suggestion above, my investigation shows that this is not doable. This is a long story best explained via PM, so contact me if interested.

On the risk of such a passage, please note the below, and tell me what you think.

I have looked at the pilot charts available via "www.offshoreblue.com". They are dated 2001, so, being a novice at all this stuff, I am not exactly sure how to interpret this fact. I assume, however, that this is data collected over a number of years and is updated perhaps every decade or so. Let me know what you know about such stuff.

What the pilot charts tell me is that the crossing needs to be made as soon as possible. Every month from July to February increases the chance of running into 12 foot or more seas by 10-30%.

I am a surfer, so I often use sites like "Wetsand" and others to give me predictions about the size of the swell and wind, plus their direction and the time between swells. I checked today, and, if I were in Taiwan at this moment, I would have a good, 5 day window, in order to get to PI.

The charts show the swell to be in the 0-4 foot range and the wind to be no more than 8 mph (not knots). The interesting part is that the swell is coming from the SW at up to 4 feet and would impact my boat in the forward, starboard quarter, but the wind is coming from directly east at up to 8+ mph, potentially hitting us almost squarely amidships, from the port side. Undoubtedly, this will cause a some of the "squirrely" conditions that the Straits seem to be known for, but apparently, they do not represent anything that I couldn't handle in the water ballasted, Mac 26.

My ideal would be to take 2 crew (using a 2hrs-on, 4hrs-off watch schedule) and to motor across the passages, with the longest passage being from the southern tip of Taiwan to Itbayat, no more than 65 miles or so, and only representing a 10-12 hour passage at worst. With good sea conditions and little wind (as seem to be the case for the next 5 days) we might be able to make that trip in half the time, and we would quickly leave behind our greatest potential threat (a typhoon).

With a good weather window, it seems that, if I were to point a bit into the wind and power a bit west of ssw, I should end up in Basco harbor in a relatively short time.

According to my research, conditions like the ones expected for this week should (in the absence of typhoons) prevail THROUGHOUT July, with things getting more and more iffy after that until next April or so. Consequently, the idea is to pick a typhoon-free window in July and "haul ass" from port to port, departing just before daybreak, and coming in no later than dark.

Check the "offshoreblue" website below for the July and other Pilot Charts (using the Indian Ocean charts, which show Php and Taiwan most clearly) and check the Wetsand link below (navigating your mouse over to East Asia) for the latest swell forecast. Then, if so motivated, tell me what you think.

Atlas of Pilot Charts for the Major Oceans of the World

SwellWatch 3D - Surf Report and Forecast

Best regards,

G2L
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Old 28-06-2011, 10:52   #8
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Re: Taiwan to Philippines ...

i am curious that how much money you spend on 22' MacGregor in Taiwan. Why not get a bigger one which was made in Taiwan?
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Old 29-06-2011, 04:10   #9
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Re: Taiwan to Philippines ...

G2L: Neat "swellwatch"! The pilot charts are the same as on this site:
Maritime Safety Information
The North Pacific charts are from 1994. I wouldn't put too much faith in them. The problem, as I see it, is that the Mac26 is light & beamy. The area is well-known for confused seas, with seas meeting each other & winds opposing currents. If for any reason you lost your keel, you'd be a statistic, but even without that thought, I think the waves will toss you around like a styrofoam cup. I've seen the youtube video of the Mac26 on Frisco Bay & I appreciate that it'd be a great boat in the Philippines, but what a gamble! I had a look on Apolloduck.com, last night, & there are boats up to 38 feet that you could pick up cheap, then alter to a raised-keel boat once home. I don't know what your budget is, but I noticed a few in the under $20k(usd) range & more under $30k. Sabtang has beach, maybe that's the island you're thinking of.

fish sky: I presume that G2L is considering the Mac 26 because the retractable keel will allow him to run the boat onto the beach and sail into shallow areas, a real benefit in The Philippines. Do you live or have you sailed in Taiwan or The RP? Do you know/have an opinion on the area? It is always good when you join the forum to introduce yourself in the "introductions" section & tell members a bit about yourself. I looked at your page, but you didn't have any info. on it. Btw, welcome to CF!

Mike
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Old 29-06-2011, 08:19   #10
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Re: Taiwan to Philippines ...

HI
I just moved from kayaking to Sailing.
I did introduce myself and just became a member few days ago
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Old 29-06-2011, 11:16   #11
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Re: Taiwan to Philippines ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fish sky View Post
i am curious that how much money you spend on 22' MacGregor in Taiwan. Why not get a bigger one which was made in Taiwan?
Hi,

Do you mean, why don't I get a bigger boat that is made in Taiwan? Not a bad idea, but I need on that has a shallow draft. Know any cats for sale there that I could buy for 12k US and sale to PI?

If so, let me know.

G2l
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Old 29-06-2011, 11:34   #12
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Re: Taiwan to Philippines ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bangkaboat View Post
G2L: Neat "swellwatch"! The pilot charts are the same as on this site:
Maritime Safety Information
The North Pacific charts are from 1994. I wouldn't put too much faith in them. The problem, as I see it, is that the Mac26 is light & beamy. The area is well-known for confused seas, with seas meeting each other & winds opposing currents. If for any reason you lost your keel, you'd be a statistic, but even without that thought, I think the waves will toss you around like a styrofoam cup. I've seen the youtube video of the Mac26 on Frisco Bay & I appreciate that it'd be a great boat in the Philippines, but what a gamble! I had a look on Apolloduck.com, last night, & there are boats up to 38 feet that you could pick up cheap, then alter to a raised-keel boat once home. I don't know what your budget is, but I noticed a few in the under $20k(usd) range & more under $30k. Sabtang has beach, maybe that's the island you're thinking of.

fish sky: I presume that G2L is considering the Mac 26 because the retractable keel will allow him to run the boat onto the beach and sail into shallow areas, a real benefit in The Philippines. Do you live or have you sailed in Taiwan or The RP? Do you know/have an opinion on the area? It is always good when you join the forum to introduce yourself in the "introductions" section & tell members a bit about yourself. I looked at your page, but you didn't have any info. on it. Btw, welcome to CF!

Mike
Hi Banka,

The island is actually called Siayan, and it is a tiny island about 20 nm north (not an exact heading) of Itbayat. Beaching a boat here only seems possible with a very shallow draft and only on the SW of the island, which would be a lee shore during the NE monsoon.

On your conversion idea. Yeah, I have considered that. In fact, I checked out a 45 Van de Stadt for sale here. Van de Stadt makes a 44 madeira with a raised keel, so that seemed like something I could do with the 45, but, boy, sounds like a lot of work and expense.

If I could pick something seaworthy up for 20k or less, sail her here and do the deed, that might be interesting. Tell me more about Apollo duck. Seems like I have accessed the site before, but I don't remember anything for sale similar to what you describe and which would be near enough to sail home to the PI.

On bouncing around like a styrofoam cup - point well taken. : )

If you have the time, tell me more about Apollo Duck and what you found there - or just post the url, and I will take a look.

Thanks, as always for your input.

Regards,

G2L
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Old 30-06-2011, 05:27   #13
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Re: Taiwan to Philippines ...

Van de Stadt Helena 38 Boats for sale Malaysia, Van de Stadt Used boat sales, Van de Stadt Sailing Yachts For Sale Van de Stadt 38 Steel yacht - Apollo Duck

Here's the link to the site. The Van de Stadt on there may be of interest to you, although you'll want a lot of photos of the hull & info on how accessible the inner shell surface & frames are. Still, with the cheap labour there & in The Philippines, it may be worth looking into. There is also a Randell 27 listed in Malaysia, but that's a traditional keel, and there is an RL 28 in Thailand, retractable keel, but it's about 26kAUD obo. There were a few others, including a 28' cat, but they're gone.
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Old 30-06-2011, 05:47   #14
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Re: Taiwan to Philippines ...

2 more in Thailand
1982 Force Engineering Stiletto 27 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

1990 CUSTOM BUILT SLOOP Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 30-06-2011, 06:12   #15
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Re: Taiwan to Philippines ...

And:

Catamaran FOR SALE in Singapore @ Adpost.com Classifieds > Singapore > Catamaran FOR SALE in Singapore,free,classified ad,classified ads,secondhand,second hand
(about $26,500 AUD)
25ft sail boat sailed from canada to philippines FOR SALE from Leyte Tacloban City @ Adpost.com Classifieds > Philippines > 25ft sail boat sailed from canada to philippines FOR SALE from Leyte Tacloban City,free,classified ad,classified ads,secondhan
2'11" draft

The bayfield is a tough little boat, a bit beamy though. Still, already "in country", although one has to wonder what "status". Fixed keel, but shallow draft. You could always add sheer legs, I suppose.
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