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Old 05-11-2012, 09:47   #16
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Re: Cruising Opportunities 2012 - 2014 Greece & Beyond

Hey Whitesands
Here is something I posted on another forum a month ago [text below]. I guess you missed it because you never responded. 'Thought you might appreciate another opportunity to reply.

[Hey Whitesands

"This is a cost sharing opportunity details of which can be found in the Crew Agreement"

But the crew agreement says
"Your contribution to the shared running costs of White Sands will be as agreed in your reservation email"

"I agree to pay the shared contribution costs"

Sounds like paid charter under the guise of "shared running costs". How about a little more disclosure? What are "shared running costs" ?

Geoff]
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:15   #17
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Re: Cruising Opportunities 2012 - 2014 Greece & Beyond

Geoff surely you understand that costs depend on place and time of year, peak season in the med is hugely more expensive than winter, we also will discount for long stays or party bookings, therefore we will only discuss rates when we know the place, time, period and numbers, we only ask for a signed agreement once all costs are agreed, if that is unreasonable then so be it, I will be happy to discuss rates with anyone interested in joining us but I guess from your negative comments and selective reference to parts of the documentation you are not.
Ray
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Old 05-11-2012, 16:56   #18
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Re: Cruising Opportunities 2012 - 2014 Greece & Beyond

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitesands View Post
Geoff surely you understand that costs depend on place and time of year, peak season in the med is hugely more expensive than winter, we also will discount for long stays or party bookings, therefore we will only discuss rates when we know the place, time, period and numbers, we only ask for a signed agreement once all costs are agreed, if that is unreasonable then so be it, I will be happy to discuss rates with anyone interested in joining us but I guess from your negative comments and selective reference to parts of the documentation you are not.
Ray
Gosh, Ray. Really?

I’m sorry you think that I’m being negative – I think you are confusing negativity with skepticism. I don’t have any problem at all with someone who wants to share costs, normally a share of food, fuel and fees, although I believe it’s usual to provide some idea of what those will be. I also have no problem with a commercial charter operation that is properly licensed, insured and operated as such. But I think it is wrong and unfair to genuine charter businesses, when one masquerades as the other.

By your own admission, you have rates. You are prepared to discount those rates. Doesn’t sound much like “shared costs” to me, unless of course you have a different definition of “costs”. You have a professional looking web site and are promoting this like a charter operation, so, as they say, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck… it’s probably a duck. And I don’t really agree that the Med is hugely more expensive during peak season – some fees are more expensive, sure, but overall costs, “hugely”? – only if you are talking about charters that base their rates on demand. I see you have updated your site and there is now an itinerary for May, June and July (maybe I missed it before but there are also other things that seem different) and a provisional booking as well, so even if it’s “hugely more expensive”, providing an estimate of your rates, err costs, for that period would be fairly easy for you. Of course you have no obligation.

Look, I have just stated my personal opinion of how it looks to me, based on what I read. I invited you to respond to that which, initially, you failed to do. Now that you have responded, I don’t see anything that makes me think I am wrong. And about my “selective reference to parts of the documentation” - it wasn’t really practical to reproduce everything so I only quoted the bits that were relevant to the point that I was making. Anyone who wants to read the whole thing can follow the link that you provided and make up their own mind.


Sail safe!

Geoff
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:02   #19
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Re: Cruising Opportunities 2012 - 2014 Greece & Beyond

Geoff, we are all entitled to our opinions, I accept that, I also accept that I am unable to convince you that we are not Charter Business masquerading as a cost sharing enterprise, yes we have some guideline rates in mind and the very reason we do not publish them as already explained is that they are subject to discounts relative to numbers and periods etc, you must agree that costs shared by us and one other are very different to cost shared by us and four others, it is not unknown for someone to want exclusivity.
I am lucky to have a son who is an IT professional who built my web site, does that make me a masquerader? Yes of course the website has changed, the calendar will be kept updated with bookings, the itinerary may change but all these were on the site from day one, does that make me a masquerader? by the way the calendar goes through to the end of September if you scroll across at the bottom of the sheet.
Let's agree to disagree about what constitutes a Charter or a Cost Share, they obviously mean different things to different people and we are both convinced we are correct, for me the fact that my UK insurers are happy with what we are doing is good enough for me.
Ray
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Old 25-11-2012, 12:34   #20
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Re: Cruising Opportunities 2012 - 2014 Greece & Beyond

Ray,

the difference between charter and cost sharing is simple: cost sharing is low priced, charter is high priced. Anyhow it is boat and your conditions.

Happy sailing,
Marius
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Old 26-11-2012, 08:17   #21
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Re: Cruising Opportunities 2012 - 2014 Greece & Beyond

Marius, you are right on both counts, in my view our rates are much lower than Charter rates, and it is our boat and our rules, it's not like we have a monopoly, there is plenty of choice out there.
Ray
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