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Old 29-05-2015, 16:39   #1
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Australia Top End / Kimberlys

Giday all,

I am looking for crew members to help sail a 40ft aluminium Catamaran.

I am still planning the trip around the top end and*looking for crew members for a 40ft aluminium*Catamaran.*
At this stage I am going to depart from Townsville around the end of *June 2015*-*

Townsville to Darwin, approximately 1 month

Darwin to the Kimberly (Port Headland), approximately 2 months

Kimberly to Perth down theWest coast. approximately 1 month.

If you are interested in shorter trips let me know.

I really donít *have a time line at this stage as I really would like to take things easy so planning on 12 hour voyages with a few overnighters, just island hoping allowing time to stop and take in the beautiful locations. Weather*dependent .*

Crew contribution will be approximately AU$30 per day.

Thanks

Jamesv

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Old 30-05-2015, 01:48   #2
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Re: Australia Top End / Kimberlys.

Is it legal here in Australia to do what you're suggesting? Or are you a licensed commercial skipper and this is a regular licensed business?

I am not asking to shoot you down, but we knew someone who suffered repercussions when he tried something similar. Be warned.

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Old 30-05-2015, 02:02   #3
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Re: Australia Top End / Kimberlys.

Legal ? This is what is site is designed for (Crew Wanted) I am sailing around Australia and require crew and the $30 is for their food and board this is not a free trip or paid trip.

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Old 30-05-2015, 04:26   #4
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Re: Australia Top End / Kimberlys.

$30/day is probably a bit cheap, I'd go $50.
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Old 30-05-2015, 19:47   #5
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Re: Australia Top End / Kimberlys.

There was a person offering to crew today who was offering $600.00 per month. i don't guess she got any responses.

Sorry, if you're soliciting crew for $1200/month, given how long transiting the Kimberleys can take, there are people out there take folks on such trips already, and it is they who might consider your offer to be "breaking their rice bowl". This is a public forum. Anyone can look at it, see your pic, read your name. We knew folks who tried similar and got run out of Airlie Beach.

Please feel free to ignore my input if you don't like it...

Let me 'fess up right now, though, I do have a bias. Alcohol and food for both Jim and me does not cost $30/day, so it looks like to me that if you have two crew for the 3 months, you're gonna make a profit. YMMV

I also noticed you did not state your qualifications.

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Old 30-05-2015, 21:44   #6
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Re: Australia Top End / Kimberlys.

Ann, your right on the money...........any "reward" for taking passengers or "crew" is considered a charter. This can be sharing fuel, food or expenses for the trip. Crew are usually paid or kept.

I used to work for the WA state marine authority and prosecuted operators for doing just this!

Jamesv, if you get caught the repercussions could be substantial fines.

I was over there 2 weeks ago (working) and was boarded by Fisheries and the Water Police, both checking the credential of the crew and their intentions!

BE WARNED!!
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Old 30-05-2015, 22:49   #7
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Re: Australia Top End / Kimberlys.

Hi... and coming from a novice... I read that the crew must either be kept or paid... but what about splitting the food, booze, fuel bills... is this still considered as an act of commercial gain?? .... seems if not.... this could be a good win win for both potential crew and owners??
Why I am asking is that I will be in Darwin soon and was going to do the same as JamesV... but just looking to split the bills..
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Old 30-05-2015, 23:47   #8
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Re: Australia Top End / Kimberlys.

Quote:
Ann, your right on the money...........any "reward" for taking passengers or "crew" is considered a charter. This can be sharing fuel, food or expenses for the trip. Crew are usually paid or kept.

I used to work for the WA state marine authority and prosecuted operators for doing just this!

Jamesv, if you get caught the repercussions could be substantial fines.

I was over there 2 weeks ago (working) and was boarded by Fisheries and the Water Police, both checking the credential of the crew and their intentions!

BE WARNED!!
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This is all bulls**t. Where in the law or regulations does it state that one cannot invite another person for a cruise without being lawfully accused of operating an illegal charter company.

Write up a "To whom it may concern" agreement that you and your prospective crew have agreed to share the costs on a non-commercial basis, everyone throw an amount in cash into the kitty, pay all the costs out of the kitty for the trip and when you get to your destination split up the remainder. pro rata your documentable insurance costs and any extra safety equipment and maybe even an allowance for depreciation. Record all these transactions on the agreement and have everyone sign off before they get their money back.

If any moron tries to give you any sort of infringement notice elect to have it handled by a court and present your evidence to the magistrate.

State authorities get away with this nonsense in Australia because we let them.

Don't forget to raise hell with your local member either, if enough of us raised hell about this stuff they would stop it.
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Old 31-05-2015, 01:35   #9
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Re: Australia Top End / Kimberlys.

So many intelligent things to say, so many unwise reactions.
At a minimum on a "pleasure cruise" you own the boat, "its your voyage" - crew should be kept - free of charge.
The crew help you - to do your voyage.
Charging people - "crew" to be on your boat is a commercial enterprise..
They are giving up their time and income earning potential. Yes they get to see and do some stuff. But it costs them their income - at a minimum and they get to do what you say when you say it
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Old 31-05-2015, 03:04   #10
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Re: Australia Top End / Kimberlys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondR View Post
This is all bulls**t. Where in the law or regulations does it state that one cannot invite another person for a cruise without being lawfully accused of operating an illegal charter company.

Write up a "To whom it may concern" agreement that you and your prospective crew have agreed to share the costs on a non-commercial basis, everyone throw an amount in cash into the kitty, pay all the costs out of the kitty for the trip and when you get to your destination split up the remainder. pro rata your documentable insurance costs and any extra safety equipment and maybe even an allowance for depreciation. Record all these transactions on the agreement and have everyone sign off before they get their money back.

If any moron tries to give you any sort of infringement notice elect to have it handled by a court and present your evidence to the magistrate.

State authorities get away with this nonsense in Australia because we let them.

Don't forget to raise hell with your local member either, if enough of us raised hell about this stuff they would stop it.
RaymondR, you are entitled to your opinion, but if you read the WA Marine Act and the regulations they speak of hire & reward. In the eyes of the Government, sharing costs etc is deemed as getting a reward. Both the owner and the master are liable.
It has been sometime since I worked for the WA marine department so I don't remember the exact wording.

This was not an offence where infringements were issued. A summons was issued to appear in Court.
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Old 31-05-2015, 12:24   #11
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Re: Australia Top End / Kimberlys.

OK, first off-

The WA marine authorities are a particular instance of "moron" since these are the people who framed the regulations in respect of tenders wherein it stated "tenders may only be used to go between the parent vessel and the shore and for no other purpose" which allowed the interpretation of "the immediately contiguous shore" even if it might be a cliff face and requires one to refrain from jumping into the tender and using it to rescue someone in the water in distress or grab a fire extinguisher and assist someone else to extinguish a fire in a neighboring vessel. This particular piece of moronhood had no other purpose than to extend the net of victims of their illicit taxing activities (WA is not the only guilty party, Queensland's income from fines is in excess of $600,000,000 per year alone)

I have been through the Kimberlies a number of time single handing and it's a fearsome place to be alone on a small vessel. If a boat owner feels they would be safer traveling through there with company aboard they should be allowed to arrange to do so and if someone is willing to go along on a shared cost basis they should be free to do so as well.

Bad laws should be resisted.
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Old 31-05-2015, 12:42   #12
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Re: Australia Top End / Kimberlys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondR View Post
OK, first off-

The WA marine authorities are a particular instance of "moron" since these are the people who framed the regulations in respect of tenders wherein it stated "tenders may only be used to go between the parent vessel and the shore and for no other purpose" which allowed the interpretation of "the immediately contiguous shore" even if it might be a cliff face and requires one to refrain from jumping into the tender and using it to rescue someone in the water in distress or grab a fire extinguisher and assist someone else to extinguish a fire in a neighboring vessel. This particular piece of moronhood had no other purpose than to extend the net of victims of their illicit taxing activities (WA is not the only guilty party, Queensland's income from fines is in excess of $600,000,000 per year alone)

I have been through the Kimberlies a number of time single handing and it's a fearsome place to be alone on a small vessel. If a boat owner feels they would be safer traveling through there with company aboard they should be allowed to arrange to do so and if someone is willing to go along on a shared cost basis they should be free to do so as well.

Bad laws should be resisted.
Hello. I am not getting into the fight about whether the local laws are good or bad.

I am interested in your statement about the Kimberlies. I bolded it above. I have never been there. Would you please give some information, from your experience, (particularly what makes them "fearsome") that could help another cruiser who may want to travel that area in the future? This is a sincere request, no hidden agenda. I am merely curious about that area (which is why I opened this thread initially), and since you have been there and see some risk there, I would like to know what makes them "fearsome" in your view.
Thanks in advance.
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Old 31-05-2015, 14:07   #13
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Re: Australia Top End / Kimberlys.

Raymond,

The law, even if moronic, is the law. Violating the law has repercussions for the owner and the master of the vessel. If apprehended while in violation, the voyage may be terminated abruptly, leaving the innocent crew stranded in an awkward position.

Thus it is reasonable to warn both skipper and crew of the realities of such a "shared cost" venture. How they decide to deal with the situation is their own business, not yours. One approach is a verbal contract with nothing in writing to show that costs are being shared. It would be difficult to prove that one was in violation... I think!!

I agree that these laws, including the tender definitions) are poorly considered, and if I was a resident of the subject areas I'd do my best to get them changed. Simply ignoring them will not achieve that change, and may lead to unpleasant events.

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Old 31-05-2015, 20:03   #14
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Re: Australia Top End / Kimberlys.

There are a number of nasties to be considered:

The remoteness, it's a long way from Darwin to Broome and you need to be fairly self sufficient.

The isolation, other than a number of tourist vessels in Kalooma Bay I only saw only one other boat on the trip from Darwin to Broome in 2012 and only one power vessel on the return from Broome to Darwin. There are no VHF contacts with VMRs as on the east coast and your mobile will not work in many places.

The possibility of cyclones, their season starts earlier than on the east coast, June is the only month in recorded history entirely without one, and there are not that many shelters from them on that coast. Be mindful that the Timor Sea is a breading ground for them and there may not be much notice.

The wild life, I have only a 2.4m dingy with a 2.2hp outboard on it and everywhere I went I fealt like a canape on a tray at a cocktail party. This is one situation where fearsome is good.

That being said if you want to consider yourself a serious cruising yatchsman you need to do the Kimberlies and if you can sail in company with a group of other boats it is a much better and well worth experience. On my first trip through there I sailed up the WA coast with a group of boats and even though we did not keep close company and I pretty well stayed ahead of them I was aware that they were behind me and could probably be called upon if I got into trouble.

Transiting the Kimberlies is one of those voyages that if you plan on a 30 day voyage you supply for at least 60 days and this is why I said $50 a day you need a good reserve of tucker and spares and if it can be managed fuel.

You also need at least a good HF receiver (a tranceiver is better but there is pretty well no one listening unless you pre-arrange a comms sked) to listen to the weather reports from VMW. A sat phone would also be handy and if I go back there again I will get either one of them or the newer locator/messaging system.
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Old 31-05-2015, 20:28   #15
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Re: Australia Top End / Kimberlys.

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post

Let me 'fess up right now, though, I do have a bias. Alcohol and food for both Jim and me does not cost $30/day, so it looks like to me that if you have two crew for the 3 months, you're gonna make a profit. YMMV



Ann

Ann, you have to get around to South Australia soon. I promise you'll WANT to spend more than 30 per day on food and wine. :^). Matt


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