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Old 13-03-2013, 19:21   #1
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Project Boat: Engineless 35'ish blue water cruiser project

Looking for a project blue water cruiser cheap. Hoping to find some sort of older leaky teaky Cheoy Lee, Hans Christian, Tayana sort of boat.

Considering putting in an electric drive, so one with a shot engine might be a good fit.

Hoping to pay somewhere between free and 10k, depending on condition.

Any leads appreciated.
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Old 13-03-2013, 21:15   #2
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Re: Project Boat: Engineless 35'ish blue water cruiser project

35' Fantasia Sailboat project
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Old 13-03-2013, 21:29   #3
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Re: Project Boat: Engineless 35'ish blue water cruiser project

I know this will start an argument, but if you want to go cruising, dont put an electric motor in. 10 or 20 years down the road they will probably be preferred, but the range is too restrictive at this point. Just another opinion.____Grant.
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Old 13-03-2013, 21:38   #4
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Re: Project Boat: Engineless 35'ish blue water cruiser project

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I know this will start an argument, but if you want to go cruising, dont put an electric motor in. 10 or 20 years down the road they will probably be preferred, but the range is too restrictive at this point. Just another opinion.____Grant.
Oh quite the contrary. You can install an electric drive and then add fairly large and expensive generator and have plenty of range. Just plan on spending double to triple the cost of a regular diesel engine including a new transmission, Plus you still end up with a diesel engine to feed and fix.

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Old 13-03-2013, 23:07   #5
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Re: Project Boat: Engineless 35'ish blue water cruiser project

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Originally Posted by gjordan View Post
I know this will start an argument, but if you want to go cruising, dont put an electric motor in. 10 or 20 years down the road they will probably be preferred, but the range is too restrictive at this point. Just another opinion.____Grant.
Don't listen to this guy.

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Oh quite the contrary. You can install an electric drive and then add fairly large and expensive generator and have plenty of range. Just plan on spending double to triple the cost of a regular diesel engine including a new transmission, Plus you still end up with a diesel engine to feed and fix.

Or this one.

I am crusing over 10000 miles and I have electric drive. It is only sensible. It cost me nothing for the motors. Range is not restricted due to the fact that this is a sailboat, and the electric is charged with solar panels which work everywhere, not just at fuel docks which don't exist in many places.

Now, also consider the time spent at anchor in the sun. I have plants growing and solar panels banking energy. The batteries are nearly always full. It is possible to motor quite far (50 miles or so) without having a ridiculously large battery bank. There is a speed/range tradeoff, but it is kind of rare to go farther because there is nearly always sun and/or wind within a 24 hour period. Also consider that I cook on this electric power since it is in such ridiculous excess. In the winter it can be hard, but I have a wood stove which is excellent as well you should consider making one like mine from an empty gas bottle.

To all you diesel junkies: please learn how to harness the wind and the sun instead. It is all around, abundant, yet every day I see people needlessly not making use of it.
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Old 14-03-2013, 01:18   #6
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Re: Project Boat: Engineless 35'ish blue water cruiser project

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
I am crusing over 10000 miles and I have electric drive. It is only sensible. It cost me nothing for the motors. Range is not restricted due to the fact that this is a sailboat, and the electric is charged with solar panels which work everywhere, not just at fuel docks which don't exist in many places.

Now, also consider the time spent at anchor in the sun. I have plants growing and solar panels banking energy. The batteries are nearly always full. It is possible to motor quite far (50 miles or so) without having a ridiculously large battery bank. There is a speed/range tradeoff, but it is kind of rare to go farther because there is nearly always sun and/or wind within a 24 hour period. Also consider that I cook on this electric power since it is in such ridiculous excess. In the winter it can be hard, but I have a wood stove which is excellent as well you should consider making one like mine from an empty gas bottle.

To all you diesel junkies: please learn how to harness the wind and the sun instead. It is all around, abundant, yet every day I see people needlessly not making use of it.
Nice to hear from someone who knows what they're talking about (and who shares my dislike of unnecessary motoring). I love the idea of being independent of fossil fuels, and not having a large smelly engine in the boat as well. I'd be interested to hear some more specifics of your system - motor power, battery size, solar power etc. Electric cooking is also an interesting option - what sort of setup to you have?

I've always thought of a diesel as something of a safety feature though, especially in strong tidal areas where putting power down for extended periods is just needed sometimes. How 'challenging' is the area you normally cruise in?

Like it or not people, we're listening to the future here.
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Old 14-03-2013, 01:21   #7
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Re: Project Boat: Engineless 35'ish blue water cruiser project

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I love how the interior of the boat just looks like a pile of rubbish to start with, then slowly resolves in to the shapes of interior furniture. My idea of a project boat as well. Strong, salty looking hull, everything else knackered.
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Old 14-03-2013, 02:55   #8
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Re: Project Boat: Engineless 35'ish blue water cruiser project

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Considering putting in an electric drive, so one with a shot engine might be a good fit.
Can't help with the boat search, but just to say that a couple of nice threads on electric power - whether for a looksee or your contribution ......FWIW, me likes the idea of EP - whether I one day go there is another thing.........but your idea (of buying with a duff / no engine) has merit in my eyes.....at worst a large chunk of your spending will have dual use (and / or can be removed and sold on) if the boat later goes back to diesel..............I guess it's about whether you can live with the pros and cons (like anything - including diesel for an engine!).
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Old 14-03-2013, 05:06   #9
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Re: Project Boat: Engineless 35'ish blue water cruiser project

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I know this will start an argument, but
And this proved to be a prescient statement.
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Old 14-03-2013, 05:24   #10
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Re: Project Boat: Engineless 35'ish blue water cruiser project

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
Don't listen to this guy.



Or this one.

I am crusing over 10000 miles and I have electric drive. It is only sensible. It cost me nothing for the motors. Range is not restricted due to the fact that this is a sailboat, and the electric is charged with solar panels which work everywhere, not just at fuel docks which don't exist in many places.

Now, also consider the time spent at anchor in the sun. I have plants growing and solar panels banking energy. The batteries are nearly always full. It is possible to motor quite far (50 miles or so) without having a ridiculously large battery bank. There is a speed/range tradeoff, but it is kind of rare to go farther because there is nearly always sun and/or wind within a 24 hour period. Also consider that I cook on this electric power since it is in such ridiculous excess. In the winter it can be hard, but I have a wood stove which is excellent as well you should consider making one like mine from an empty gas bottle.

To all you diesel junkies: please learn how to harness the wind and the sun instead. It is all around, abundant, yet every day I see people needlessly not making use of it.
Everything you say is correct but here are a few counter points.

1. I harness the wind when it's possible. If the wind is blowing my sails are up. Even sail on and off the anchor when it's a safe option.

2. I have a 42' boat and based on many hours of research there are no commercially available electric drive systems with the power to replace my diesel.

3. I have researched DIY electric systems and could build my own system but at the expense of a lot of time and money.

4. Without adding a generator to power an electric drive your range under power will be very, very limited OR you will have hundreds of kilos of batteries, most likely you will have both limited range and a lot of batteries.

5. With the limited cruising range of electric and battery only, there are many cruising options that will be closed to you like all rivers and canals in Europe and the IntraCoastal Waterway in the USA just to name two.


My conclusions electric drives as they exist today work in these situations.

1. Boats no larger than 10-11 meters

2. Sailors that have plenty of time and can afford passages that may take days or weeks longer without the ability to motor through calms.

3. Sailors that cruise only in open waters.

To go outside these limitations you have either a very big budget or the time and expertise to build your own system.

If you know of solutions to the above issues I am more than ready to switch to electric drive.

By the way, I do have a degree in electrical engineering and even though my studies were in the area of integrated circuit design and digital logic I do have a reasonable understanding of the technology involved in electric motors and batteries.
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Old 14-03-2013, 05:26   #11
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Re: Project Boat: Engineless 35'ish blue water cruiser project

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjordan View Post
I know this will start an argument, but if you want to go cruising, dont put an electric motor in. 10 or 20 years down the road they will probably be preferred, but the range is too restrictive at this point. Just another opinion.____Grant.
I have no personal experiance that the reference later in this thread to 50 miles of range is actually acheivable (reliably!) but from comments read previously / elsewhere I am pretty sure it is - even if augmented by a generator (to slow the battery drain down - not run a diesel electric!)......50 miles does not sound a lot - it didn't to me initially! and still sounds oddly low!!! (my boat has a range of approx 50 hours!).......

........but in practice 50 miles would actually be good enough for me 99% of the time, including a trip to France and back (from here!)........my thinking is that the higher range for a diesel engine (in the hundreds of miles) is as much about refuelling being a PITA / not always being conveniantly available as anything about actually needing that sort of range during a voyage (including for "safety")......at least not for 99.99% of voyages on a sail boat, as long as one is prepared to plan around sailing and to accept the trade offs that often involves (mostly in time)....

....not to say that EP is for everyone and every voyage, but if actual needs (not perceived ones) permit I think that EP has reached a stage where it merits at least a long hard look........not of course to replace a working Diesel - but certainly as a replacement for one that has gone pop .....imagine never needing to refuel, and your fuel was free - including for cooking! .

Having said all that, I would like a few more guinea pigs to go ahead of me yet .
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Old 14-03-2013, 05:35   #12
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Re: Project Boat: Engineless 35'ish blue water cruiser project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Sail View Post
Looking for a project blue water cruiser cheap. Hoping to find some sort of older leaky teaky Cheoy Lee, Hans Christian, Tayana sort of boat.

Considering putting in an electric drive, so one with a shot engine might be a good fit.

Hoping to pay somewhere between free and 10k, depending on condition.

Any leads appreciated.
Hi Max,

Might be easier to get some leads for a boat if you let us know at least what country or part of the world you're in. If you live in Maine a cheap boat in Hong Kong probably won't do you much good.
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Old 14-03-2013, 06:05   #13
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Re: Project Boat: Engineless 35'ish blue water cruiser project

I'm in Michigan. Would love to find a local freshwater boat; but shipping from east coast, Florida , or Canada isn't out of the question. Plenty of project boats seem to be on the West Coast, but I think West of the Rockies is probably a bit far to ship a project; unless it was an incredible deal on an ideal boat.

Thanks for the link Lennie, let's keep em coming!

:-p

Max
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Old 14-03-2013, 06:25   #14
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Re: Project Boat: Engineless 35'ish blue water cruiser project

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I'm in Michigan. Would love to find a local freshwater boat; but shipping from east coast, Florida , or Canada isn't out of the question. Plenty of project boats seem to be on the West Coast, but I think West of the Rockies is probably a bit far to ship a project; unless it was an incredible deal on an ideal boat.

Thanks for the link Lennie, let's keep em coming!

:-p

Max
Shipping from FL to Michigan would eat up most of your buying budget so would have to be pretty much a freebie to work from here. Even from New England to MI would be a few thousand.

Assume you have tried Craig's List and eBay? If not, I recommend checking them on a regular basis. Good deals and freebies do pop up but the really good ones also get snapped up pretty quickly.

Another good source, visit local boat yards and marinas for boats that are abandoned or the owners can't pay the bills and just need to off the boat. Lots of good deals found that way.
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Old 14-03-2013, 11:44   #15
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Re: Project Boat: Engineless 35'ish blue water cruiser project

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Shipping from FL to Michigan would eat up most of your buying budget so would have to be pretty much a freebie to work from here. Even from New England to MI would be a few thousand.

Assume you have tried Craig's List and eBay? If not, I recommend checking them on a regular basis. Good deals and freebies do pop up but the really good ones also get snapped up pretty quickly.

Another good source, visit local boat yards and marinas for boats that are abandoned or the owners can't pay the bills and just need to off the boat. Lots of good deals found that way.

Yeah, I assume I'll have at least 2 or 3k in moving the boat, if not 5 or 6 grand. Haven't been able to find the right thing locally. The lack of salt water and hurricanes in Michigan means fewer junk boats I guess. :-P

Have been trolling Craigslist and ebay... hopefully the right thing will pop soon.
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