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Old 28-09-2011, 14:38   #16
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Re: Looking to Buy 45-50' S/V in Bristol Condition

If I was Silkyblue and seriously in the market I would be a bit more explicit about what I wanted.
My own 45 footer is “fully equipped for voyaging and self-sufficiency,” but it doesn’t have a bow thruster or water maker or electric winches, but it does have a hot-tub bath.
”Willing to close the deal with cash between Feb-April 2012. Looking for the right deal until then,” is contradictory. Are they expecting someone to make a deal, then wait five or six months to be paid?
What’s an “equally exceptional cash price?” If they specified a ceiling price, then anyone in that area might offer their boat. Otherwise a seller won’t have a clue what price range they are talking about and be embarrassed to find it miles too low, or miles too high. It’s like going into a brokerage and saying, “I want to buy a cheap boat.”
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Old 28-09-2011, 17:32   #17
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Re: Looking to Buy 45-50' S/V in Bristol Condition

but even if there were no rot or structural issues under the glass, this ia an 87 year old wooden boat.

Hardly ... Liberty 87 year old wood was completely rebuilt and then had 11 layers of Hand Laid Cflex bonded to the wood with Bronze screws . It is now a 10 year old FRP hull with wood frames. We didn't miss that deal, we decided she was too skinny and small for a 52 foot hull because of the design. Newer hull shapes have tons more room in that length of a boat.
There are 249 boats 45-50 feet listed for under 250k right now on Yachtworld, only on the East half of the US and the Carribean. Add the Bahamas and up to 325k and that number climbs to 2242 yachts. Most will sell for half of what they want and only need 25-50k in upgrades. The rest will sit for a LONG TIME without even a tire kicker coming around in this economic climate.
Then there is the problem of financing for a used boat these days. Banks have enough REO without adding chattel loans to their non performing list of assets.
60-100k CASH can buy a lot of boat right now.
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Old 28-09-2011, 17:53   #18
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Re: Looking to Buy 45-50' S/V in Bristol Condition

Quote:
Originally Posted by silkyblue View Post
60-100k CASH can buy a lot of boat right now.
Think you`re dreaming.
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Old 28-09-2011, 18:13   #19
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Re: Looking to Buy 45-50' S/V in Bristol Condition

Quote:
Originally Posted by silkyblue View Post
Hardly ... Liberty 87 year old wood was completely rebuilt and then had 11 layers of Hand Laid Cflex bonded to the wood with Bronze screws . It is now a 10 year old FRP hull with wood frames. We didn't miss that deal, we decided she was too skinny and small for a 52 foot hull because of the design. Newer hull shapes have tons more room in that length of a boat.

Guess I misunderstood the three articles I found on the net about the boat.

"In 1985, in anticipation of sailing her to the Caribbean, Pitts and Sons Boatyard utilized the Vaitses method to fasten 11 layers of fabmat - a chemical bondable laminate of two different fiberglass materials - under Liberty’s keel and continuous fiberglass over the topside and cabin tops mechanically secured to the wood hull by 1 1/2 " inch stainless steel screws every 4 inches."

To me this reads 11 layers of glass under the keel but not on the hull. Nor does it say anything about removing the hull planks to replace them with glass. Still sounds like glass over a wood hull to me.

But for sake of argument sure, it's not a wooden boat but a boat overhauled into fiberglass in 1985, 25 years ago. It still sounds to me like it a boat that might be worth $100-150K that sold for $80K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silkyblue View Post
60-100k CASH can buy a lot of boat right now.
Certainly will, but if you buy a boat that is genuinely worth $300K, not a boat that a loving owner seriously overpriced, but a realistically priced, Bristol condition, turn key, ready to cruise for $60K I'll eat my dinghy (the old one, not the new RIB).
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Old 28-09-2011, 18:17   #20
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Re: Looking to Buy 45-50' S/V in Bristol Condition

Quote:
Originally Posted by silkyblue View Post
but even if there were no rot or structural issues under the glass, this ia an 87 year old wooden boat.

Hardly ... Liberty 87 year old wood was completely rebuilt and then had 11 layers of Hand Laid Cflex bonded to the wood with Bronze screws . It is now a 10 year old FRP hull with wood frames. We didn't miss that deal, we decided she was too skinny and small for a 52 foot hull because of the design. Newer hull shapes have tons more room in that length of a boat.
There are 249 boats 45-50 feet listed for under 250k right now on Yachtworld, only on the East half of the US and the Carribean. Add the Bahamas and up to 325k and that number climbs to 2242 yachts. Most will sell for half of what they want and only need 25-50k in upgrades. The rest will sit for a LONG TIME without even a tire kicker coming around in this economic climate.
Then there is the problem of financing for a used boat these days. Banks have enough REO without adding chattel loans to their non performing list of assets.
60-100k CASH can buy a lot of boat right now.
I guess I just don't understand. If this is what you think then why are you asking around here? I'm with Vasco ... you're dreaming.
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Old 28-09-2011, 18:31   #21
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Re: Looking to Buy 45-50' S/V in Bristol Condition

Quote:
Originally Posted by silkyblue View Post
I have seen a lot of 250-800 K Yachts reluctantly sold for 60-250K in the past five years.
If a $250,000 yacht sold for $60,000, then it probably wasn't really a $250,000 yacht.

You're going to find that most folks who own boats worth over $250,000 are somewhat recession-proof. They probably won't need to sell the boat tomorrow at a terrible loss. That's not to say that there are not deals to be made currently; however, those who think they'll find a great, turn-key 50-footer for $60,000 are deluding themselves.
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Old 28-09-2011, 18:37   #22
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Re: Looking to Buy 45-50' S/V in Bristol Condition

Quote:
Originally Posted by silkyblue View Post
but even if there were no rot or structural issues under the glass, this ia an 87 year old wooden boat.

Hardly ... Liberty 87 year old wood was completely rebuilt and then had 11 layers of Hand Laid Cflex bonded to the wood with Bronze screws . It is now a 10 year old FRP hull with wood frames. We didn't miss that deal, we decided she was too skinny and small for a 52 foot hull because of the design. Newer hull shapes have tons more room in that length of a boat.
There are 249 boats 45-50 feet listed for under 250k right now on Yachtworld, only on the East half of the US and the Carribean. Add the Bahamas and up to 325k and that number climbs to 2242 yachts. Most will sell for half of what they want and only need 25-50k in upgrades. The rest will sit for a LONG TIME without even a tire kicker coming around in this economic climate.
Then there is the problem of financing for a used boat these days. Banks have enough REO without adding chattel loans to their non performing list of assets.
60-100k CASH can buy a lot of boat right now.
Silky, I hope you are getting some good ideas amongst all the prattle. You should be able to get a boat, on average, as much as 40% below asking price. Exceptional deals occassionally happen, but usually there is an underlying reason. You want a 45-50 footer is Bristol sail away condition. I'm thinking 200-250k. Maybe 150k in "good" condition. At any rate, it's a buyers market! Have fun!
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Old 28-09-2011, 19:25   #23
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Re: Looking to Buy 45-50' S/V in Bristol Condition

An ex charter is a possibility but for the two of us we would prefer a two cabin version.
Looks like there are a lot of frustrated people on this site in between a few of the more self-fulfilled souls. But I guess they gotta have some way to vent their shortcomings. I agree with the gentleman from Australia who said "just do it", you can't count on a future !
We are going to do just that in the next few months. We've just retired.
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Old 28-09-2011, 20:17   #24
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Re: Looking to Buy 45-50' S/V in Bristol Condition

Silky,

Please understand that people aren't just out to rain on your parade and those who you may think frustrated may be just trying to help you in your search and give you their best opinion and benefit of their experience.

For example, I've been boating about 35 years, guess something like 25,000 sea miles, was a yacht broker for several years, have owned numerous boats including several 18-20' ski boats, 25' center console, 36' sport fish, 32' racer/cruiser, 36' to 65' cruisers. I just spent about three years shopping for a boat not too different from what you are looking for, and paid cash.

I think I can safely say that most of the members I see responding on this thread could quote similar credentials.

I spent untold hours searching the entire US east and west coast and Caribbean. Look internet for brokers, for sale by owner, salvage sites, auction sites, insurance repo sites. Made several trips up and down the east coast looking at boats. I do think I'm a reasonably savvy guy and I did not see a single, high quality, ready to go, Bristol fashion boat selling for 25% or even 50% of its true value in all that time.

I found some really good deals on boats in good condition (by the way, a boat that is ready to go the day you buy it is as rare as a winning lottery ticket, seriously, not exaggerating).

I found some great deals on fixer uppers, really solid, need lots of cosmetics and new sails or electronics sort of fixer uppers.

I wish you the best of luck and hope you really do find the deal of the century but I think what you are looking for is a very, very long shot. But those winning lottery tickets are out there. Maybe you'll be the one.
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Old 29-09-2011, 05:55   #25
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Re: Looking to Buy 45-50' S/V in Bristol Condition

There are no easy answers for your quest, putting a time limit on it is going to cause unneeded stress. Perhaps a "Wait until we find the one right for us at the right price." Would make for a more positive experience. I am quite happy with the vessel that chose me, however if I hadn't had an emotional feeling about it, I could have purchased the vessel for a good bit less. Having said that I am content with my vessel and it has all the features that I wanted in a cruising / sailing / fishing vessel, with the correct design and builder. I still have much work to perform on her to bring her into my vision, but she was indeed a "turn key" at the time of purchase, I am just a little on the picky side hence the labor of love.
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Old 29-09-2011, 06:07   #26
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Re: Looking to Buy 45-50' S/V in Bristol Condition

I think Timing is everything. The OP is correct that alot of boats are selling for half or close to half of what they did 2-3 years ago. Saw a Beautiful Tayana 42 sell for 50k. in very nice condition and well appointed.
In these times people need money, some of them more then boats.
Also depends on the demand or type of boat. I think its inteesting that many like Morgan 41 O/I and even earlier versions of the Gemini 105 continue to sell for more then they cost new.
Again Timing is everything. If you find a deal, you better be able to Snatch it up very quickly and sometimes with no survery if its that great a deal.
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Old 29-09-2011, 07:29   #27
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Re: Looking to Buy 45-50' S/V in Bristol Condition

Quote:
Originally Posted by silkyblue View Post
An ex charter is a possibility but for the two of us we would prefer a two cabin version.
Looks like there are a lot of frustrated people on this site in between a few of the more self-fulfilled souls. But I guess they gotta have some way to vent their shortcomings. I agree with the gentleman from Australia who said "just do it", you can't count on a future !
We are going to do just that in the next few months. We've just retired.
No need to get your feelings hurt and start casting stones. Remember this is an internet forum and some are going to call you out and some with treat you with kid gloves. There is lots of good advice here if your are open to hearing it.

We retired 4 years ago and have purchased two boats (sold one) over the last 3 years and are already looking for the next, so we have seen a lot of boats recently. There are deals but they need work and $$ as others have said. A truly "bristol" condition boat appropriately priced for today's market doesn't stay around long.

Good luck with the retirement and the boat search.
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Old 29-09-2011, 10:48   #28
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Re: Looking to Buy 45-50' S/V in Bristol Condition

I still say all this advice is hypothetical, if not a waste of our time. They haven’t given any indication of how much they want to spend, so how can anyone with a boat for sale have the slightest idea whether it would be in their ballpark? Sure there are bargains out there in this economy, but a $250,000 bargain is not a jot of good if you’ve only got $100,000. They must have some idea of what they are looking for, but as it is everyone is blowing in the wind.
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Old 29-09-2011, 13:53   #29
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Re: Looking to Buy 45-50' S/V in Bristol Condition

silkyblue,
The boat you are seeking is actually right where you wish it to be.....and just came on the market last month....
Quote:
Originally Posted by silkyblue View Post
Newly retired couple looking for a spacious home on the water fully equipped for voyaging and self-sufficiency.
Prefer FRP but open to an exceptionally well built Steel or Wood Hull for an equally exceptional cash price. Must be on the East Coast of the US (or the loop), preferably in Florida and we are looking for a US registered Vessel.
Willing to close the deal with cash between Feb-April 2012. Looking for the right deal until then.
Please have a look at this fine blue-water cruiser....
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post786220

Catalina 470 for sale by owner.com - Catalina 470 for sale by owner


The owners are friends of mine, and I can personally attest to their "religious" maintenance and "bristol" care.....it looks NEW....
(their boat makes mine actually look "used"

Get in touch with them (Ron and Ingred), and have a look.....you'll fall in love instantly!!!!


{While they've only done some coastal cruising and a few jaunts to the Bahamas, I have taken my C470 (a sistership) offshore 10's of thousands of miles, and in some prett crappy weather as well, including two Atlantic crossings.....and short of the fine Hinckley that I grew up on (and made my first Atlantic crossing on), I wouldn't trade my C470 for anything else....}


I really do hope this helps....

John
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Old 29-09-2011, 14:03   #30
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Re: Looking to Buy 45-50' S/V in Bristol Condition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasco View Post
Think you`re dreaming.
A friend just bought a 44 Kelly Petersen for 48k in Maryland. Needs mostly cosmetics and has a low hour engine. They are out there but you need to be patient in finding one.
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