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Old 08-10-2010, 07:37   #1
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Location: Pahoa Hawaii
Boat: Jay Kantola - Trimaran 65 ft by 40 ft beam
Posts: 87
60' Trimaran with 40' Beam - Sleeps 12

Aloha,
Well I'm in a pickle with a huge trimaran and my loss is your gain. I purchased this baby, launched in 2000, when her owners had a distress sale. I sailed it to Thailand, just added new mast, new sails, all new paint, new ac wiring, and new full size stainless steel oven. All pilot house glass was replaced with tempered glass. I even added a brand new full size touch sensitive keyboard.

My problem is a slip in Hawaii for a huge boat like this is $100k. I'm looking now for something smaller.

So here is your chance to own a Jay Kantola designed trimaran built in the USA. The former owner spent 8 years building it using West System and end grain balsa wood hulls and PVC core decks.

Replacement cost on this baby over $1.25mm.

If you are looking at this post you already know a trimaran is the safest and strongest boat you can own. You can knock a hole in every hull and she will still float!

Top cruising speed on the 150 HP engine is 12 knots.

Mast was and rigging was revised from a high maintenance full baton main sail to a low maintenance crab claw. Thank you James Wharram and Crowther for helping to show the way that a big Bermuda rig NOT what you want on a cruising boat. Mast is lightweight and tapered like a mast should be. There is no reason for heavy scantings on a boat that doesn't need a heavy mast to be stable.

Boat comes with 4 brand new kayaks, 1 older kayak, 2 tenders, 3 anchors, miles and miles of line, three chains, three drouges, 2 para-anchors, and all the trimmings.

Will make a good family cruising boat, or can be turned into income producing boat. It is made in the USA!

Serious inquiries only. (No it isn't free.)

Boat is currently in Thailand and can be delivered anywhere in the world. I can also add some features you may want like AC (add about $25,000) or .... yes I can convert it back to a full baton main with rotating mast (add about $200,000).
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:38   #2
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Any photos?
Asking price?

Is this the Windswept who lost it's mast around the marshall islands?
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:25   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreas.mehlin View Post
Any photos?
Asking price?

Is this the Windswept who lost it's mast around the marshall islands?
....
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Old 10-10-2010, 01:27   #4
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Boat: Jay Kantola - Trimaran 65 ft by 40 ft beam
Posts: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreas.mehlin View Post
Any photos?
Asking price?

Is this the Windswept who lost it's mast around the marshall islands?
Aloha,
I can't go anywhere without people showing up who know of my boat and part of the story behind it and the wonderful people that built it. Yes this boat is Windswept, and yes it was demasted near the Marshall Islands.

To share with you background data:

This was the 2nd trimaran built by the former owners. It was built for their retirement and they sailed it around the South Pacific for nearly 7 years.

It is my belief that the sail plan designer was the root cause of the demasting. The designer should have focused on who would sail the boat. A retired couple that frequently sailed with no crew. Instead, the designer supplied called for a 79ft rotating mast with a full baton main sail and a large head sail. Yes Windswept won races. However, in general the boat was just too fast no matter how much they reduced sail. They told me they usually just kept the main on the third reef.

The mast was supported with a main forestay that also supported a head sail and two backwards leading side stays located at the 7/8th mark. This is the same design found by the way on most multihulls. The problem with this design is a single failure leads to a demasting.

I entered the picture on a sailing trip from Thailand to Hawaii. The Marshall Islands were on the way and I just experienced stepping and rigging a mast in Thailand. Therefore, I was no afraid to take on the project. I jury rigged a mast from a light post and made up to 200 nautical miles made good in a single day.

My background is engineering. More specifically I sold the equipment that helped makes power plants and oil refineries safer. I wouldn't have sold much equipment if it had the safety integrity level of tri-pod supported mast. Further, none of my clients would have accepted the continual headache of full baton main sails. Therefore, I spent the entire trip trying to figure out how to build a safer rig.

I haven't been alone in this search, however, I was starting with a fantastic platform to work from. Crowther is the one that gave me the idea that mounting the mast in the back of the boat is a valid position for a multi-hull. His boat Shot-Over won races and is still sailing today. Instead of a massive genoa, as others have been doing, I turned to the history books and looked really hard at a proven Pacific design called the crab claw.

I had Rolly Tasker sails make me what are perhaps the worlds two largest crab claw sails ever to be flown. Large yes, however, they are still smaller sails and easier to move around then the sails they replaced. Wind tunnel testing has shown crab claws are 190% more efficient then the combination of head and main sail. The biggest difference is come from the lift provided by the crab claw. It has a greater horizontal element then the largely vertical element found in a head/main combination.

Engineering is about problem identification, and problem correction. It is my job. I wouldn't want the mast to come crashing down on me as it did here and continues to happen to others with the same design.

This is how my mast ended up on the rear box wall with a new mast step. I then simply rotated the former backward leading side stays and make them into forward leading sidestays. The net result is I cured a little problem. You can completely remove the head stays and the mast is fine. I don't intead to test this out under full sail, however, according to my math it will still stand if the main forestay were to break again.

To handle the forward pressures on the mast, I added two new chain plates and attached a spar to the back of the mast. This is currently redundant.

Lets talk about the mast. In searching the web for ideas I came across several 79ft masts nearly identical and just around 10 years old. Two sections put together placed into a shipping container makes this size common among bigger sail boats. They were being offered pretty cheap compared to a brand new mast complete with all the rigging. I subsequently learned why. After about 10 years there is good way to know you have a strong mast and rigging that hasn't been compromised.

The problem is corrosion and metal fatigue. I wasn't keen on intial cost of the mast, didn't like the fact that all the rigging wire and fittings should be tossed out every 5-6 years, and certainly didn't like the idea of replacing the mast every 10 years. Therefore, I looked to other materials.

I selected wood from Laos. It is the same light and flexible wood the British Navy used in their fleet. If it was good enough for their massive ships, it should be good enough for mine. To make it even stronger, it was bonded together with epoxy, wrapped in fiberglass soaked in epoxy, then epoxy painted. A crew of 12 workers spent 6 weeks forming, shaping and finishing the mast to specifications.

To suppor the mast I selected rope form New Zealand. Not just any old rope. High quality Dyneema. Each of my rigging lines has a breaking capacity higher then the entire weight of the boat. Even though the maker advertised low stretch, I found some initial stretch on the shake down trip, and they were easy to firm up.

I will be posting more photos here shortly.

The main reason I have not listed a price is, I am considering using a broker. I would need to consult with that person first before setting a reasonable price.

I drew out the equity on my home in Hawaii to afford this boat and all the months of changes. I also am coming up on one full year of my time in this project.

I am willing to speak off this post by private e-mail. Tell me when/where you would want to take over ownership. I am not willing to finance.

This said, I might consider a partnership in the boat for someone with a business plan, strong capital for the startup of the business, and my involvement to ensure the total investment is still safe. Like I said my original plan was to take it to Hawaii where it would be a perfect high-end charter boat. However, I dont' have the funds to pay the huge docking costs or buy a slip in Hawaii.

Photos to follow.
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Old 10-10-2010, 09:33   #5
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Well this is real interesting...I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures.
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Old 15-10-2010, 05:40   #6
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Picture update

I've posted a few pictures.
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Old 15-10-2010, 08:16   #7
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Where did you post the pics?
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Old 15-10-2010, 08:42   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James S View Post
Where did you post the pics?
pictures are in his profile james, interesting looking rig indeeed
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Old 15-10-2010, 08:59   #9
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Yeah....that is interesting.
I got a buddy in Florida who told me about a multi he saw with a similar rig but the mast was also canted forward at like 15degs or so.
The owner told him the only problem he had with it was other sailors hailing him to ask if every thing was OK.
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Old 16-10-2010, 07:55   #10
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Boat: Jay Kantola - Trimaran 65 ft by 40 ft beam
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Rig rake - Technical Link on Aft-Mounted Mast

There are long threads on the subject of aft-mounted mast designs you can review at at Boat Design Net - the Boat Design and Boat Building Site. Brian Eiland in particular has been advancing his own aft-mounted mast design. It also has a forward rake like your as you observed on another boat.

Raking the mast forward is needed in these designs to allow room in these designs for a small sail mounted behind the mast to balance the center of effort.

I didn't need to do this in this design as I have used crab claw sails that don't provide more lift then downward pressure on the bow.

Here is some more technical data for your to look over.

http://www.ignazioviola.com/ignazio_..._HPYDC2008.pdf

p.s. I know the market is limited for big trimarans, and in particular big trimarans that are cutting edge technology. If you happen to know someone that might be interested in purchasing my boat there certainly would be a big finders fee involved.
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Old 17-10-2010, 12:04   #11
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Can you disclose what kind of $ you are hoping to get?
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Old 17-10-2010, 19:44   #12
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Very interesting design, very interesting story as well. I have followed the planned voyage for weeks now. It is a shame that the trip never got off the ground.
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Old 19-10-2010, 06:32   #13
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Boat: Jay Kantola - Trimaran 65 ft by 40 ft beam
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Comparing trimarans on the market

Again sorry I am not providing a price here. I want a broker's opinion.
You can get an idea what others are asking for for trimarans of this size at Yachtworld dot com. Please however, be very aware of the tremendous difference between an older first or second generation trimaran and a third generation as designed by Jay Kantola. The big difference is in the hull shaping that allows it to point higher.

Also many of the trimarans are really just racing toys and not cruising boats intended to take you and your friends comfortably across the Pacific or around the world. Since they have no real accommodations that are cheap.

One of them is listed at $695k. It has more living space, two Volvo engines with sail drive, and is obviously set up for the charter market in light seas. With all the extra accommodations and engine it must also have added windage, and lower sea clearance. That boat is most likely intended and best suited for the charter business in calm seas.

The closest comparable boat I think is a 1996 Chris White.
http://au.yachtworld.com/core/listin...g_id=1427&url=

Lets lay the two side by side.


Designer: Chris White ------- Jay Kantola
Listed Price US$ 369,000 -----Not determined
Launch 1996 ----------------2000

Dimensions
LOA: 54 ft 0 in---------------66 feet
Beam: 34 ft 6 in--------------40 feet
LWL: 52 ft 3 in----------------60 feet
Bridge Clearance: 64 ft 0 in----88 feet

Engines
Engine Brand: Yanmar----------Izuzu
Engine Model: 4JH2-TE
Cruising Speed: 10 knots--------12
Maximum Speed: 20 knots-------
Engine Hours: 4000--------------3600

Tanks
Fuel Tanks: 84-----------------100...My boat also easily stores 16 full Geri cans and 4 propane tanks

Accommodation
Number of single berths: 2-------5
Number of double berths: 1------4
Number of cabins: 2-------------3
Number of heads: 2-------------2
Number of bathrooms: 2---------2

Electrical Equipment
Electrical Circuit: 24V-----------12v and 120vac - Honda Geneartor 3-solar panels, 2 wind generators - 2 alternators driven by engine

Outside Equipment/Extras
Electric windlass---------------5 Kayaks and 2 tenders


Dimensions
Max Draft: 2'6"/ 9"-----------------8 ft
Displacement: 17,000--------------15,000 (estimated)

Engines
Total Power: 50 hp.--------------------150 hp
Cruising Speed: 8 to 10 knots---------same
Max Speed: 20+-----------------------Not certain

Tanks
Fuel: 84-------------------------------2
Fresh Water: 2 x 60 = 120 gallons -----2

Construction
The hull construction is a strip-plank cedar core fiberglass layup ------West System Epoxy with end grain balsa hull and PVC foam deck
This accounts for heavier weight of the Chris White boat despite fact it is smaller.

Rig
Full baton main Marconi main and Bermuda rigging -- Aft mounted mast with dual crab claw.

Overall, I would say this Chris White boat is a pretty darn good deal for the price listed. Therefore, I would consider it to be a fairly good bench mark in setting my own price. My boat is as you see above quite a bit larger with more accommodations and a lighter construction.

Phil

Note: On a previous post I said center of effort incorrectly. With crab claw sails I have more lift and it is owing to the great lift of the crab claw sail that I don't require a sail behind the mast.

For more background information on what inspired me to not go with the full baton main sail and its associated huge hardware/maintenance costs see these links

James Wharram Designs -Home of the self-build Catamaran.
Sailing Wakataitea
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