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Old 16-04-2012, 14:08   #1
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40-50 Foot Cat - Somewhat Unorthodox Approach

Hello world:

We are in the market and will be buying as soon as we find the right boat. The house is sold and we have no contingencies holding us back from pulling the trigger. We will be cash buyers and we are looking for a 42-50 foot catamaran to live on full time. We would prefer the following attributes, but nothing is a deal breaker:
  • Privately owned/ not ex-charter
  • Low(ish) Engine hours
  • 12 V refrigeration
  • Solar, Wind & Generator all plusses
  • At least one dedicated shower stall
  • Headroom to accommodate 6í3Ē
  • Watermaker
  • Final price range of $200,000 - $325,000
Age is not a major concern if the vessel is well kept up. Galley up/down does not matter. AC does not matter. We are looking at a number of FP Bahias, FP Belizes, Lagoon 440, 470, and Privilege 482s, but are open to other models. We have ruled out the older Leopards as not having enough bridgedeck clearance. Mantas (while we really wanted to like them) also didnít make the cut.

Now hereís the part that is sure to stir up some controversy:

If you have a boat that you are selling and itís not on Yachtworld.com or the other brokerage sites, please contact me (OK, nothing controversial there).

If your boat is on Yachtworld, and you intend to contact me with the asking price thatís already out there, please donít bother (there it is!). Iím already aware of what is being asked for boats that fit our criteria. What Iím not aware of is who really wants to sell their boat and can be negotiable.

Why am I doing this? I hope to avoid having to put in a large number of low (but not necessarily lowball) offers just to find the few people out there that want to make a sale happen- and potentially miss a good boat because you canít put offers on everything.

Why should you do this? This is an opportunity for you to present a better (or hopefully your best) offer to a qualified purchaser that will be buying and not just kicking tires. We just sold our house and believe me, if I had a realtor come to me and tell me that someone was considering my house among 20 others and confidentially wanted our best price, you can be certain that I would have come off our asking down to what we would actually take. I promise you that I will keep all communications and discussions of price confidential so that if it doesnít work out, you have not undermined your current position on the asking price. For you business folks out there, think of this as an RFP or RFQ process where you can submit your best price and point out where your vessel is better than others and justifies the price.

Not sure how this will be received, so letís seeÖ..

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Old 16-04-2012, 14:25   #2
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Re: 40-50 foot cat - somewhat unorthodox approach

RFP or RFQ process is the way to do it.
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Old 16-04-2012, 22:03   #3
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Re: 40-50 foot cat - somewhat unorthodox approach

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RFP or RFQ process is the way to do it.
Sorry in my ignorance.

Plse' advise what RFP or RFQ is abbreviation for.

Cheers
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Old 16-04-2012, 22:24   #4
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Re: 40-50 foot cat - somewhat unorthodox approach

Request For Proposal (RFP) or Request For Quote (RFQ)

You basically state what you want and let the sellers tell you what they can provide and for how much. You then eliminate the offers that don't meet your requests and choose one or more to negotiate with.
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Old 16-04-2012, 22:59   #5
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Re: 40-50 foot cat - somewhat unorthodox approach

No offense and good luck with your approach, but aren't you basically asking a seller to show his hand while you are not willing to show yours?
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Old 16-04-2012, 23:04   #6
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Re: 40-50 foot cat - somewhat unorthodox approach

You might also want to consider appointing a 'buying broker'. It's an unusual concept (at least for those of us accustomed to the traditional brokerage arrangements where the broker acts only for the buyer) but it seems to have some merit as applied to boats...and, of course, with the right (i.e. ethical!!) broker.

We struggled mightily with the whole buying process, chewing up incredible amounts of hours (days/weeks/months/years!) and dollars as we went along. In the final result we bought in the traditional way (through a broker acting for the vendor) but we also had just appointed a buying broker that we found to be VERY helpful. It's a long story why the buying broker didn't complete our deal but the result did NOT reflect any lack of effort and support from 'our' broker...and we are happy to recommend them -- Please PM us for details if you're interested -- to anyone in your position.

Briefly, the buying broker offered a great combination of...
  • no cost to the buyer as the vendor still pays the brokerage and...
  • an international network of agents and contacts able to organise physical inspection of vessels virtually anywhere. As you progress in your search you may find (as we did, often) that vessels bear little resemblance to their descriptions on Yachtworld etc such that the access to an onsite inspection makes the buying broker an irrestible option and...
  • an impressive pool of experience (especially where there is a network of supporting agents) in assessing vessels both physically and vis-a-vis the market and...
  • a very useful negotiation intermediary/foil.
Anyway, that's some food for thought from our experience.

Good luck in your search!
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Old 16-04-2012, 23:17   #7
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Agree with D&D. That's what we have always done and been very satisfied.
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Old 16-04-2012, 23:43   #8
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Well done D&D. We were thinking of taking the same approach when we are ready to buy our Cat.
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Old 17-04-2012, 09:07   #9
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Re: 40-50 foot cat - somewhat unorthodox approach

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
No offense and good luck with your approach, but aren't you basically asking a seller to show his hand while you are not willing to show yours?


Yes and no. On one hand I am asking a seller to show me something different than they have already shown (the existing price on yachtworld), but in return I have put in front of them a ready, willing and able buyer (me). If they are in the mindset of really wanting to sell (instead of just putting out an unrealistic number and hoping that a Saudi prince will take a fancy to their boat), this gives the seller an opportunity to put out their best price to see if it matches with how I would value the boat. If the prices match, great- we have a deal. If not, no harm no foul, as I will keep their price info confidential and then they are in no worse position then when they started.

This model typically arises when suppliers/sellers outnumber buyers (which is the current situation in the boat market). In fact, in the business world, it's becoming more common to move away from competitive RFPs/RFQs and to create a reverse auction. In this scenario, suppliers (sellers) are invited to an auction to provide goods/services/whatever to the purchaser, and the auction starts at a given price and then the suppliers bid LOWER and LOWER until the lowest bid is reached and that is the supplier selected to provide the goods/services/whatever. THAT would be interesting when applied to boat sales as well.....

And thanks to folks for the recommendations of using a buyer's broker. We are in fact also working with a buyer's broker and going through the "standard" process of identifying and investigating boats. I thought I would also try this approach as even the best broker can't be aware of all boats and all situations that may be workable for us.
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Old 18-04-2012, 05:40   #10
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This is what happens when your mind is constantly dreaming of the blue yonder! I meant to write 'well done teneicm'. Brain functioning again.....Would love to hear how you get on with your unorthodox approach.
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Old 18-04-2012, 17:30   #11
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Re: 40-50 foot cat - somewhat unorthodox approach

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hanks to folks for the recommendations of using a buyer's broker. We are in fact also working with a buyer's broker and going through the "standard" process of identifying and investigating boats. I thought I would also try this approach as even the best broker can't be aware of all boats and all situations that may be workable for us.
on the buyer's broker. I think this approach will work much better for you. The other way you seem very anonymous and that would worry me.
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Old 18-04-2012, 18:05   #12
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Re: 40-50 foot cat - somewhat unorthodox approach

You think your approach is "unorthodox"...?!?

Check out this one... Family in search of...a cruising lifestyle

Give us a boat...and not just any boat, an owner's version L450...which would of course have to be no more than a year or so old...and then you'll be "blessed"...

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Old 18-04-2012, 18:12   #13
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Re: 40-50 foot cat - somewhat unorthodox approach

Good luck.

You will need it to pick up a low houred Lagoon 440 with watermaker priced between $200,000 - $325,000.

Not saying don't try. May get at a bank's fire sale.
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Old 18-04-2012, 18:31   #14
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Re: 40-50 foot cat - somewhat unorthodox approach

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Wow.... don't even know what to think about that. Just... wow.
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Old 18-04-2012, 18:37   #15
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Re: 40-50 foot cat - somewhat unorthodox approach

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You will need it to pick up a low houred Lagoon 440 with watermaker priced between $200,000 - $325,000.
Our list is a "nice to have" not a "must have". Most of the 440s (and there are a handful) that I think are in our reach typically have mid-range engine hours and only have a smattering of the equipment we'd like (solar, watermaker, etc).
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