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Old 21-06-2018, 18:41   #1
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The Bane of F.P. Boaters, Bright work or bare Teak...

Hello Friends, Helia 44 here, now Blessed to be on a SABA 50 !!!

The French deliver these yachts with bare teak... OK, advantages to bare teak... Hmmm ok low maintenance.. Problem with bare teak, grows black mould, dirt, and cleaning and or bleaching eats away at the soft wood in between the grain so it gets coarser over the years. It will inevitably go to heck in the long run unless it is sealed..

Now "Serenity" came bare, and the ordering Owner left it bare. Three years later I get her, and the main teak table in the cockpit (huge) had little specks of black mold, and various stains... Here in lies the problem, that big table is of solid wood borders but only a veneer in the main center piece. Clear Teak veneer over about 19mm marine ply, with a solid teak border of heavier thickness.. And then there is the front anchor hatch, he let the front anchor locker go until it really went to heck and deteriorated..

The anchor roller locker in front of the main anchor locker, should not have been left bare.. The new one built is of 4" (100mm) planks all joined together with waterproof glue, nice job but again will go to hell exposed to the weather long term.. The first Owner did a nice job of replacing it, but again joinery like that should not be let go bare IMO..

Bleaches and teak cleaners attack the soft wood in between the grain, same as scrubbing, and it gets worse in time. So, I decided to seal and maintain them all, and you have pictures below of the outcome OK?

Here is the Dilemma: What to use? The obvious common choice is varnish. However, it weathers from the bottom up, and eventually breaks the bond to the wood. Even though you thin the first coat down to soak it in, it still breaks that bond as the varnish is too brittle in the constant heat expansion and cold contraction OK? That break of the bond, is the yellow areas, where it has actually broken loose from the surface adhesion. Outside maximums when sanding and re-coating every year in my experience? Outside, 4-5 years for most. The problem is that when it goes, it all has to be stripped and sanded, and that is really hard to do on a veneer that is fragile and thin. It is too easy to ruin in the strip down and sand. The various two pack type varnish looking clear coatings are even worse. Again they break the surface adhesion, and are even harder to strip. The sun breaks down the bond from the bottom up, definitely a no no.

Second choice is a soft high build oil, like 40 years ago one of the best was Behr oil. High build, looks like satin varnish, but in the sunlight heat you can dig your fingernails into it. It has an unknown life, but not good for tables as things can actually stick to to it... But it does last longer as it stays soft and flexible, but no good for my application...

Now here is what I chose to do, and I am not saying it is the best, but in my 40 years of yachts it was the choice based on my experience: Deks Olje Scandanavian Teak Oil, the satin finish one.. It does not in my experience, break the surface bond. Instead it wears from the top down. It is easy to use, and if you need to fill the grain better (like I did) you can do the three coats and let it dry for a few days then sand with something like 240 grit OK? It leaves the Teak Oil in the lower part of the grain and sands off the high bits... Then you have to coat again. My coats are three, brushed on across the grain, about 15 - 20 minute apart in summer, now in winter I let it go about 30 minutes between coats. It starts to tack up a little and the brush drags if you let it go longer. I stroke it out a couple of times across the grain, and then leave it. It is very thin, and the solvent flashes off, and leaves you a nice finish. The big thing is that this Teak Oil soaks in for hours, and I have not had a surface adhesion problem of it breaking down. It wears from the top down, and you give it a light sand and re-coat and it might last forever, nearly... At least I have not owned a yacht long enough to have to re-do Deks Olje Teak Oil other than a quick re-coat. It goes a little tacky after a few hours, soft and soaking in for hours and then still sticky for a day, and then harder after a few days.

The first picture is of my main dining table in the cockpit.. This is two (3 coat) sessions over a couple of weeks, then a sand down and wipe with turps and rag, and one final session of three coats in about an hour and a half. The grain is not quite filled, but good enough. It has a varnish look, but hopefully will not break the surface adhesion and have to be stripped back. First picture in process, second picture is of it finished.

The next pictures are of the solid plank front anchor roller hatch and locker. This is only one (3 coat) session and a sand, and then a final 3 coats. It could use more. I think you do this like every six months to once a year, and in my experience it goes on forever....

The last set of pictures is the two seats up on the bow of the pt and strbd sides. Same treatment as above, but the grain is rougher. I think it got cleaned and scrubbed more. Again, quick and easy three coats.

I hope this helps some of you wondering what to do with your bare French teak bits on the Fountaine Pajots...

Hope this helps, Kind Regards, Helia 44 on a Saba 50 "Serenity"
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Old 21-06-2018, 19:31   #2
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Re: The Bane of F.P. Boaters, Bright work or bare Teak...

Nice.
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Old 21-06-2018, 20:08   #3
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Re: The Bane of F.P. Boaters, Bright work or bare Teak...

That does look nice.

Do you know that the Moderators can change your forum name? Since your now Saba 50 (though that might be taken).
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Old 21-06-2018, 20:35   #4
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Re: The Bane of F.P. Boaters, Bright work or bare Teak...

Thanks for that,
Helia 44 is ok... Many would know me from that...

On the bright work, this Deks Olje was just an idea that has worked out well, in that it should outlast varnish..

Enough coats, (easy to do) and this main table in the Cockpit looks about as good as it would with varnish... Finished picture below.. Hope to be of a help, as you just cannot let the F.P. bare wood go or I think you have long term problems..

Best regards, vessel "Serenity" inside the GBR in Australia
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Old 22-06-2018, 10:08   #5
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Re: The Bane of F.P. Boaters, Bright work or bare Teak...

Nice write up of a nagging problem all boaters face with maintaining wood. Thanks for sharing your techniques
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Old 22-06-2018, 10:36   #6
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Re: The Bane of F.P. Boaters, Bright work or bare Teak...

Looks good, I have always used varnish, however dechs olje seems would be a lot faster require less coats that my varnish job
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Old 22-06-2018, 12:20   #7
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Re: The Bane of F.P. Boaters, Bright work or bare Teak...

Assuming you are in the tropics, you will need to reapply monthly.
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Old 22-06-2018, 12:33   #8
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Re: The Bane of F.P. Boaters, Bright work or bare Teak...

VERY nice!
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Old 22-06-2018, 17:54   #9
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Re: The Bane of F.P. Boaters, Bright work or bare Teak...

Looks great! any ideas on how long this will last before it needs recoating?
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Old 23-06-2018, 05:41   #10
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Re: The Bane of F.P. Boaters, Bright work or bare Teak...

Beautiful! We've been struggling on how to handle the anchor locker - Please share how it weathers and how often it requires re-coating.
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Old 23-06-2018, 09:53   #11
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Re: The Bane of F.P. Boaters, Bright work or bare Teak...

I've thought about using Dek Olje and did use it years ago on a previous boat without great longevity of the finish. I've been further discouraged in using it after reading Practical Sailor's review after only a six month outdoor exposure:

"The Deks Olje oil appears simply to have vanished, leaving the wood looking almost exactly like the vertical bleached strips. There was only a faint color difference.When PS called the Flood Co. to ask about the Deks Olje performance, Jackie Kirby, a technical advisor, said that the Deks Olje matte finish oil is considered to be good for one season, or about six months. "If a shinier, longer-lasting finish is desired," she said, "the matte finish oil should be followed with multiple coats of the gloss version."" -- From Teak Treatment All-Stars After Six Months, November 15, 2003.

But maybe they've improved he formula in the past 15 years! Is the Deks Ojle you used just the matte product? It looks too glossy for that in my estimation.

The PS test of varnishes found a low cost Ace hardware spar varnish to be one of the best for longevity and the two-part finishes even better. I've done my hatch covers with two coats of clear epoxy followed by six coats of Ace varnish and it is hold up nicely after a year of Texas sun exposure except along a repair made with some 'PC Woody' epoxy. Probably due to a differing coefficient of expansion between the teak and the epoxy filler. I've got to make a companionway cover!


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Old 24-06-2018, 14:53   #12
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Re: The Bane of F.P. Boaters, Bright work or bare Teak...

Thank you for your words of appreciation for my efforts..

Under cover in my cockpit, I would expect it only needing to be re-coated once a year... But it is a quick and easy job, I spread drop cloths around the table...

Out in the weather it is a quick job to put on three coats every 15-20 minutes, a couple of times a year. The point is varnish is nice, but it is a huge problem with veneers as you almost cannot strip it down without wrecking the veneer..

The big point, is the beauty is the Deks Olje weathers from the top down. Varnish works, until it breaks down, and it breaks down from the bottom up. Those big yellow patches you see are where it breaks the surface adhesion. No matter how many coats you put on top, when it breaks down the bond on the surface you have to strip and sand bare and start again. That property of varnish, makes it deadly to a big veneer surface...

How long it lasts, depends on how many coats you put on. A couple of sessions of three coats, and it will last many months. The beauty is the re-coats are no big deal and hardly any time involved. Hey, I love the look of high grade varnish, even the two pack clear, but when it goes you have a major problem in sanding it down to bare without wrecking the thin veneer.

This is the best alternative I have found...

"Calm Seas Quest" Note, that the previous Owner left the veneer over marine plywood on the forward anchor locker go in the weather... It was wrecked in only a couple of years. He had a solid 4" plank hatch made, doweled, good joinery, and obviously exterior good glue. However, even that will go to heck if left unsealed. The Deks Olje is quick and easy, recoats sort of 15-20 minutes in hot weather, and easy to do. I will not mind doing a freshen up of it a couple times a year. In summer if I have to do it every few months even, it is easy and satisfying to do... The beauty is it weathers from the top down, and not from the bottom up breaking the surface adhesion like varnish.... Or two pack clears, same thing.

Kind regards from Helia 44 on "Serenity" Saba 50 Paradise...
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Old 25-06-2018, 06:36   #13
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Re: The Bane of F.P. Boaters, Bright work or bare Teak...

We’ve gone for a teal sealer, we’ve chosen teak wonder, really pleased with the outcome, 3 coats , will need resealing several times a season, but only takes 5 mins to apply and <1hr to dry.
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Old 25-06-2018, 07:16   #14
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Re: The Bane of F.P. Boaters, Bright work or bare Teak...

Hi All
SABA 50
Does anyone have information on whether the Saba is being discontinued. We have heard conflicting views. Some say, no further orders are being taken by FP. ACY say in a recent newsletter that ACY are now taking orders for the NEW 51 (as well as deposits), however when challenged, said its only their opinion that there is a NEW 51 arriving soon, but add that the Saba is being discontinued. So all a bit confusing especially as we have ordered a Saba 50 for 2019 and would rather buy a NEW 51 than a new SABA, if the SABA has run its course. All input would be welcomed
regards
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Old 25-06-2018, 16:04   #15
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Re: The Bane of F.P. Boaters, Bright work or bare Teak...

Hello Ikigai,

I would call or Email Multihull Solutions, they have a Frenchman on Staff from F.P. because they are the biggest sellers of F.P. in the Southern Hemisphere.. They should be able to answer you. For me, the only Saba 50 in Australia, was the only choice as time is a real issue for us. A year to get one built, shipped to Australia, and Commissioned.. Was just not in the cards for us..

Anyway, Email to the Mooloolaba Office in Australia, I have gotten blitzed on Whiskey on the back of my Helia with Patrick, and I think he is the "Inside Man"..

Now two more things: WELCOME TO THE FORUM, POST NUMBER ONE!!

Secondly, maybe you are an experienced and accomplished Sailor, then fine. But if not well experienced with Cats you need to know this: Even the Saba is A BIG BOAT !! I mean getting into a dock in a cross current or wind, anchoring is big, sails are big, this is a BIG BOAT if you have any ideas of Single Handling like me. I have forty years experience, and am in sheltered waters along the 200 islands of the coast of Queensland up into the Great Barrier Reef, so I have easy sailing compared to many...

Also, you would really need to understand the design. I had a Helia 44 for several years, and this Saba 50 sails and handles, and motors, almost the same. If they were coming out with a new model, that is a really big gamble. I mean you would almost want to Charter one for a few weeks somewhere to see for yourself OK?

One last thing, as an afterthought, this would have been better as it's own topic so it is not lost. I would copy your Post and make it a new Topic, and I will copy this answer and put it there. Otherwise it is lost in this topic as an "Off Topic" Post no one can find... OK?

Kind regards, Saba 50 "SERENITY"
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