Helia 44: Stowing a Dinghy in Transit (Helia 44)

[SailMonAmi]

I'll be sailing Mon Amie from Annapolis to the BVI in November, and have been advised not to hang the 11 foot dinghy from the Davits. That's pretty obvious because the outboard shaft keeps banging into waves and is pretty harsh on the dinghy. Stowing it is now a problem. Upside down and lashed onto the Davits with a Davit extension was considered, but if a big wave comes down on it, I fear the Davits (even after they've been reinforced) could rip out from the transom. So about the only idea left is on the upper deck to the port side latched down upside down with one or more pad eyes needed to be added for lashing. Any suggestions or better ideas? Thanks.

[Cheechako]

Begs the question what kind of dingy?
Being a catamaran, I would remove the motor and leave the dingy on the davits.... unless it sits real low for some reason on your boat? or is it real heavy and you are worried about davit strength?
Just me though. I figure in the ultimate storm I'd be willing to cut it free if I had to...
My 10ft double floor RIB (42ft cat) never came off the davits all the way down island.

[Cotemar]

Deflate and tie upside down over one of the bows. It worked well on my friends Helia 44 from BVI to Newport RI, All done offshore.

[SailMonAmi]

It's a rigid inflatable Caribe. We will remove outboard, and have considered lashing down over one of the bows, but it seems like it would be in the way of crew (dinghy is 76" wide) and I'm straining to imagine (I've never seen it deflated) securely tying it over one of the bows without adding some additional hardware, I.e., pad eyes. I'd love to keep it on the davits, but rough seas and damage to davits is my primary concern.

[boatman61]

Crossed the Atlantic from Florida to Almerimar, Spain Feb this year with one of those strapped over the port side netting.. had the bow resting on the beam..
it was a Lagoon 420

[downunder]

Sounds as if the dingy davit design on the Helia is an afterthought rather than designed for real worldwide cruising.

You could consider redesigning the davits. I recall the first Helias had to recall and modify the davits. Sounds as if they still need a total redesign.

[SailMonAmi]

Davits were under-engineered and poorly designed. On new models they are raising and reinforcing them. Just had mine reinforced, but they didn't raise them. Arrrgggg!

[mndreamchaser1]

Originally Posted by SailMonAmi

I'll be sailing Mon Amie from Annapolis to the BVI in November, and have been advised not to hang the 11 foot dinghy from the Davits. That's pretty obvious because the outboard shaft keeps banging into waves and is pretty harsh on the dinghy. Stowing it is now a problem. Upside down and lashed onto the Davits with a Davit extension was considered, but if a big wave comes down on it, I fear the Davits (even after they've been reinforced) could rip out from the transom. So about the only idea left is on the upper deck to the port side latched down upside down with one or more pad eyes needed to be added for lashing. Any suggestions or better ideas? Thanks.

I am sailing our Helia (Dream Chaser) from Norfolk to BVI in November as well (Salty Dawg Rally). I have a Caribe 10' RIB. I intend to pull the motor and store it in the genset locker, keep the dinghy on the davits pulled as high as I can, and then I lash the dinghy further, to pull and keep it tight to the stern. I used the same technique last winter for transiting up and down the East Coast. Including very nasty following seas. No issues.

Only the motor clearance is an issue for us, as the dinghy rides high enough on the davits (without the motor) for most all. For short passages, I just tilt the motor.

[Cotemar]

Here are a few pictures of an early model Helia 44 with the re-enforced davits and wedges under the davits to raise them up.

This was my wife and I doing an offshore trip last week from Montauk to the Chesapeake.

We had 28 knots of wind and 8 to 10 foot swells on the stern. Some waves were breaking and we were surfing from 8 to 14 knots with just the Gib sail out.

The 12 foot West Marine RIB as you can see was just fine with the 15 hp 2 stroke Yamaha outboard still attached.

You can see we hoisted the dinghy up high and on and angle. We also had a bow and stern line off the dinghy to the two lower stern cleats on the Helia.

We had absolutely no issues for the 400 mile trip.

[SailMonAmi]

Between your response and mndreamchaser1's, I think I now have the plan I was looking for. I'll sleep better with my reinforced davits, but still wish they'd raised them in the process of reinforcing them. And so, I'll have to remove/stow my outboard or the dinghy won't survive the passage. Thanks!

[captainjay]

You can't see it in Cotemar's photo but that boat is Wide Ranger, hull #2. I put a bracket on the starboard transom and the owners usually pull the outboard and put it on that bracket for crossings. That boat has don round trip from St Thomas to New England last year and will be returning this year. If you get the weight of the motor off I would have no problem leaving the boat on the davits. If you didn't get the wedges put under your davits you need to. Wide Ranger was the prototype for this fix I made the first set out of wood and the reps from the plant took those measurements back to France and started making the ones you see in the photos. By the way the tender on Wide Ranger is a12 foot West Marine RIB

This is the bracket that I used.
http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp...48991&id=56271

We made a wood block out of 4x4 to space it out off of the transom.
Jay

[peteh007]

I think your true instincts are solid. The Davits are probably not going to hold a dingy, and will fail, if you catch a wave that fills it - plus the acceleration forces in heavy weather on a full dingy are huge. ~1cu.m of seawater is one metric tone or 2200lbs!!
so.. I would pull those little davits, modify them in terms of length and install angle; and install a SSteel 50mm 'arch' from hull to hull, "underneath" the davits to give it super strength. Try to lift the ends of the davits about 12~16". You'll sleep better. A SS fabricator that makes sail boat arches can do a job like that..

[downunder]

Originally Posted by peteh007

I think your true instincts are solid. The Davits are probably not going to hold a dingy, and will fail, if you catch a wave that fills it - plus the acceleration forces in heavy weather on a full dingy are huge. ~1cu.m of seawater is one metric tone or 2200lbs!!
so.. I would pull those little davits, modify them in terms of length and install angle; and install a SSteel 50mm 'arch' from hull to hull, "underneath" the davits to give it super strength. Try to lift the ends of the davits about 12~16". You'll sleep better. A SS fabricator that makes sail boat arches can do a job like that..

Definitly way to go.

It is a shame that such an experienced builder can't get such an important aspect right.

[Helia 44]

SailMonAmi, IMO this is very important, so I am taking the time to share:

I own a Helia 44... And I have a little experience, started with cruising in the 1970's. I think I can give you an accurate answer and what I would do. And let me qualify this, a short trip where you are days sail from a safe harbour and you can stretch this... But, on an off-shore passage, no no no :

First of all, yes the worst I have been in was just a Whole Gale at sea in 60-70 knots and 20' seas with the top 4-6' breaking with the wind. You DO NOT WANT A DINGHY ON ANY DAVITS in those conditions..

Look, in a perfect world you are going to surf down the wave face at an angle, and be moving fast, maybe just less or just more than the wave. But if something goes wrong you could have 4 to 6 feet of water breaking over the stern.

FYI, the early Helias had the Davits at too low of an angle, so they came up with a new mounting system and raised them up a little. All the subsequent ones are mounted higher, and still, off shore? No, no, and no..

Day sail to safe harbour, no worries. Open passage? Things can turn nasty in 24 hours. I would take the motor off (mine is a 15 hp Honda 4 stroke about 48 kg) and stow it in a locker. Then I would hoist the inflatable with a halyard and winch, and maybe deflate. Because mine has a hard alloy boat keel, lash it down under the main boom in the sunbathing area, or over the anchor and gen set lockers in front of the bridge deck main salon...

The davits are only rated to 200 kg by FP.. If a following sea broke on you, not only would you lose the whole shooting match but it could breach the water tight integrity of the stern gunwale.. OK with that?

Only answering because this is a VERY important topic.. OK?
Kind regards, Helia

[BigBeakie]

Helia 44;

I would be surprised if you could find a cat owner who has ever had 4 to 6 foot breaking wave poop the cat, even in fully developed breaking seas. A quartering sea will break on the transom steps and come up the steps into the cockpit, yes perhaps, but break onto a raised dinghy I have not heard of.
Cats do not behave the same as mono's under those conditions as attested to by reports by skippers using drogues under horrendous conditions, and there are more than a few of those reports. Even using the Jordan series drogue devices which almost stop the boat, the cat's stern gets pushed up, ie rises into the froth, the boat moves forward with the breaking wave, and the wave passes under the cat as the resistance builds by the drogue.

In the circumstance where the seas & waves might be of Perfect Storm proportions and be SO big & SO steep that it comes crashing down on you in the trough, well a damaged dinghy and bent davits will likely be the least of your worries at that point.