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Old 16-05-2018, 10:43   #61
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Re: Rigging and Sails

Thank you Terbonium.

Some thoughts :

1 - I am very surprized about the way Fountaine-Pajot is very strict on the options they propose... If that main sail hook option solved some problem, do they realized that it create others ?

2 - about Dynema : I am a old style sailor sticking on proven things and ways to manage a sailboat, and I am reluctant on "Dynema everywhere". OK on the genoa sheet point (sorry I am French speaking) to reduce the weight and the impact when tacking, BUT for the main halyard hook... HUM !

So you confirm that a hard shackle is doing a better job ?
For sure I will change it at commisionning.


Thank you.
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Old 16-05-2018, 11:11   #62
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Re: Rigging and Sails

I fitted the Gaff lock to my Lipari. Lessons learn

The factory halyard seems to be 11 or 12mm poly double braid. Problem is itís just a little too thick for the Gaff lock, so I changed it to 10mm spectra. Much stronger, less stretch and runs smoother, and it doesnít seem to squash like the standard double braid.

The soft shackle needs to be stiff and slippery. I had one made by Wet tech rigging in Sydney and itís been perfect.

Although the shackle should work the concern I would have is over time the stainless shackle will damage the aluminium of the Gaff hook. These thinks are not cheap. The soft shackle is softer than the aluminium so any damage should be to the shackle not the hook, and the soft shackle is cheaper.

I also installed a shock cord ďdownhaulĒ between the hook And the first batten car. This helps the shackle snap into place as you raise the sail. This is also used to stop the car just going up the mast if you unhook the soft shackle or forget to open the sail bag and try and raise the sail. Sounds silly but donít ask how I know this can happen.
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Old 16-05-2018, 11:36   #63
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Re: Rigging and Sails

What is the price of these? The only thing I saw online is 900 some odd euro for the sis 40? Maybe that includes the cars?

Jeff
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Old 19-05-2018, 02:19   #64
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Re: Rigging and Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
What is the price of these? The only thing I saw online is 900 some odd euro for the sis 40? Maybe that includes the cars?

Jeff


We purchased ours in Australia, and it cost around $1000 AUD but this was just the hook but was a exact fit to the existing cars on our Lipari.
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Old 19-05-2018, 14:24   #65
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Re: Rigging and Sails

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Originally Posted by Dod42 View Post
We purchased ours in Australia, and it cost around $1000 AUD but this was just the hook but was a exact fit to the existing cars on our Lipari.

So, even if this is a very nice design the price is a bit high.


OK the quantity produced will be quite small and paying the mold (maybe 15,000$) with that quantity is difficult.


I have a MARKFORGED 3D printer in my office, quite idle now, and even if I did not tried fiber carbon yet ... for sure the fiber carbon printed hook should be more resistant than the aluminium one. Just don't know how it will resist to UV.


The other direction would be direct aluminum printing !
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Old 19-05-2018, 14:47   #66
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Re: Rigging and Sails

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Originally Posted by Falbala60 View Post
So, even if this is a very nice design the price is a bit high.


OK the quantity produced will be quite small and paying the mold (maybe 15,000$) with that quantity is difficult.


I have a MARKFORGED 3D printer in my office, quite idle now, and even if I did not tried fiber carbon yet ... for sure the fiber carbon printed hook should be more resistant than the aluminium one. Just don't know how it will resist to UV.


The other direction would be direct aluminum printing !

I agree they are expensive, but they do work well.

Hey when I get back to OZ in July Iím happy to send you the plans they sent me.
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Old 20-05-2018, 09:03   #67
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Re: Rigging and Sails

Thank you Dod, Terbonium and Cotemar for your inputs on a subject that concern MOST of the catamaran owners.

Looking more into the details on the Karber Hook design, I have ONE FEAR !!!

Look the attached pictures. I understand that the 2 exit holes of the halyard are standing vertical and parallel when on the mast track.

Question : Is Fountaine-Pajot made the mast head in a way that the centerlines on the 2 strands on the halyard are the same like the hook when at the mast top ???

If they are like the pictures, with an angle, there should have shafing at a point YOU WILL NEVER SEED because on the very few inches of the halyard at the top. And also downwind when the sail is 90deg of the cat axis.

Are some cat owners with the Karver hook can check their halyard ?
If it breaks ... lot of fun to reinstall a new one.

Humanity (and sailboat designers) ... mostly learn by catastrophy ... I would prevent one :-)
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Old 20-05-2018, 09:05   #68
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Re: Rigging and Sails

The pictures....
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Old 20-05-2018, 09:31   #69
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Re: Rigging and Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falbala60 View Post
Thank you Dod, Terbonium and Cotemar for your inputs on a subject that concern MOST of the catamaran owners.

Looking more into the details on the Karber Hook design, I have ONE FEAR !!!

Look the attached pictures. I understand that the 2 exit holes of the halyard are standing vertical and parallel when on the mast track.

Question : Is Fountaine-Pajot made the mast head in a way that the centerlines on the 2 strands on the halyard are the same like the hook when at the mast top ???

If they are like the pictures, with an angle, there should have shafing at a point YOU WILL NEVER SEED because on the very few inches of the halyard at the top. And also downwind when the sail is 90deg of the cat axis.

Are some cat owners with the Karver hook can check their halyard ?
If it breaks ... lot of fun to reinstall a new one.

Humanity (and sailboat designers) ... mostly learn by catastrophy ... I would prevent one :-)

Mine seem to be correctly angled however with the Lipari at full raised sail it doesnít seem as close as the photos. Standard setup pre hook the halyard runs the wrong way which means I had to add an extra sheave at the masthead to get it to run the way the Karver lock needs. Not sure what the factory does as Iíve never seen a factory install as I did my install.

Having just been up the mast recently to fix the tv antenna I can verify that in my case there is no chafing at the point you described and this is nearly 18months on. I am due to haul in another 4 months and we usually end for end our halyards as part of our procedures so will check again.
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Old 21-05-2018, 06:30   #70
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Re: Rigging and Sails

From the Fountaine-Pajot Lucia 40 Karver Hook Option, I just hope that this is just "an artist sketch" rather than the REAL way thte mast head is designed for the hook.

If the hook and the mast head, with non parallel and non aligned halyard stands, are that way... for a Lucia that will be chartered and have a mainsail continously up and down ... at a point where the tension is the highest, shafing will occur for sure...

For Karver, as they claim the hook can be installed on most existing cat, I would design both rope holes as oblond holes (slot rather than cylindrical) that permit a certain misalignment. If a hard shackle is used instead of the textile this should not make any difference in the operation.

As a designer, I like very much the Murphy's Law ...
if there is A CHANCE ... it WILL !!!
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Old 21-05-2018, 07:08   #71
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Re: Rigging and Sails

Iím not sure what you mean Falbala60
Peter
Hereís a pic from the karver folks..
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Old 21-05-2018, 07:10   #72
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Re: Rigging and Sails

Hereís a pic of my Karver hook and dyneema loop
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Old 13-06-2018, 10:57   #73
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Re: Rigging and Sails

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Iím not sure what you mean Falbala60

Peter

Hereís a pic from the karver folks..


Can you see the PARALLEL strands on the Karver drawings and the angle on the FP one. I am asking if the FP design for their mast head is like their dwg or this just a BAD illustration... and they made it properly
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