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Old 15-12-2014, 19:03   #61
DtM
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Re: Rig and Sails

I think that given the quality of the FP cordage it is likely that you could use a better quality 12mm rope for the main halyard.
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Old 15-12-2014, 20:38   #62
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Re: Rig and Sails

I would say that most Helia owners suffer from the halyard twist problem. I replaced the FP supplied halyard with a T900 New England ropes dyneema cored polyester jacket line made for halyards. At first much better; however the twist are certainly returning.
Doing a little research, it seems that the problem occurs with 2:1 halyards that have a dyneema core and polyester jacket. Somehow the jacket twist without twisting the core as the line moves over the 2:1 blocks under high tension. Some suggest a swivel shackle at the top of the mast where the halyard attaches to allow the line to untwist. I haven't tried it. I might send an inquiry to NE ropes to hear their suggestions.
For now I go on the foredeck, pull all of the halyard through the rope clutch and then turn around and pull down the main.
Yes, I love our gennaker!!
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Old 16-12-2014, 22:41   #63
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Re: Rig and Sails

Are you suggesting a swivel block with a stopper knot at the top of the hoist rather than the knot attaching the end of the halyard to the mast crane at present?
One sure thing is do not let the block at the head of the main swivel.
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Old 17-12-2014, 04:56   #64
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Re: Rig and Sails

I always thought the twisting was due to wrapping the line around the winch.
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Old 17-12-2014, 05:06   #65
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Re: Rig and Sails

Yes, there seems to be consensus that a swivel at the dead end of the halyard where it attaches to the top of the mast alleviates the twist problem in a 2:1 halyard. I follow a Yahoo Catana Group and there was an extensive discussion about the same problem on 2:1 Catana halyards.
Certainly don't let the block attached to the head of the main rotate; that's a good way to get the main stuck in the up position.
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Old 20-02-2015, 15:38   #66
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Re: Rig and Sails

FP gives a table of wind speed x sails configuration with their manual. The table seems (and must be) very conservative. Anyone could give practical information on how the boat behaves in real day to day usage?
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Old 21-02-2015, 22:16   #67
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Re: Rig and Sails

Update on the main halyard twist on the Helia 2:1. Not sure there is a real fix for it other than replacing the halyard which we are doing with 12mm Dynex (dyneema)with a polyester cover. We'll try better quality cordage than supplied by FP and make sure we run it straight out flat before threading the replacement. Not sure what else to try....not sure I like the idea of a swivel on dead end of the main halyard....just something else that can fail.

In regard to the difficulty noted by Starry Horizons in a previous post with dropping the main in 35 - 40 knots and a sea running and the main wanting to run back up the mast. We too have experienced the problem and believe it is due to the fact that the luff of the main on the Helia (especially the lower four battens) are spaced a long distance apart which allows the wind to get at a substantial portion of the luff of the mainsail.

From the tack of the mainsail luff to the first batten car the distance is: 4.25m, first batten car to the second batten car is: 3.6m, second batten car to third batten is: 3.5m, and the third batten to the fourth is: 3.15m.

When dropping the main with several approx. 4m folds of unsecured luff flapping in 35+knots and heading up in a sea.....the main is going to be hard to control.

I can't say why FP dropped out the intermediate cars, but in my view they should be there as the main is harder to control than it needs to be for a cruising boat.

Interesting enough, FP has now started installing intermediate cars on the Saba 50 with a flexible whipping..... (see the attached photo).

The fix is to install several additional intermediate cars and a corresponding eye or strap on the mainsail luff for attaching the cars to the mainsail and modifying the lazy bag on the boom to fit the additional cars that will stack up.

I believe the base cost of intermediate the Z Spar car is about 150 Euros each, plus whatever modifications to mainsail and lazy bag, so it is not a cheap exercise.

I will be writing to Incidences to get their advice on type and the positioning of mainsail luff attachments and pass on when I get an answer.
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Old 21-02-2015, 22:31   #68
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Re: Rig and Sails

Photos didn't attach to the previous on the Helia Halyard & luff cars. Trying again.
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Old 21-02-2015, 23:58   #69
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Re: Rig and Sails

Better to use 10ml Dyneema with polyester cover. The 12ml still can get caught up in jammer.


The reasons why the main is a problem in high winds is the connection to the top car which holds the main up. This is resolved by implementing a geared dyneema (say 3ml) rig from the eye to the top car and back and then down to second car.


This has two advantages.


(1) You do not have to muscle the head to the first car. You simply have to connect the shackle to the eye. I use a rotating snap shackle.


(2) The main flakes nicely into the bag. No problem at high winds speeds especially considering you should be reefed anyway.
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Old 24-02-2015, 15:21   #70
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Re: Rig and Sails

Thanks TPF for your detailed posting. That is exactly what I had experienced and adding the additional cars is a fix I'm currently contemplating.

Since I was rather unhappy with the situation (and didn't fancy always having to walk to the mast to pull down the sail!), for our crossing I ended up rigging a downhaul. In order to do this, I took out the 3rd reef under the thought that if the wind was that high, I'd most likely have dropped the sail anyways.

This worked out extremely well and I was able to easily pull down the sail from the helm. I had to use a spare spinnaker sheet which was thicker than I would like, so it will be replaced, but it was a much easier/cheaper fix than adding more cars.

Food for thought for anyone else who has had this issue with their mains!
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Old 16-04-2015, 01:37   #71
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Re: Rig and Sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
I always thought the twisting was due to wrapping the line around the winch.
I just read this posted a few months ago...
I agree with you.
As one takes three wraps on the winch at the cockpit 'end' of the halyard, those three twists are transferred at least 30m up the halyard once the main is hoisted.
Now unwrapping the line causes those 'twists' to remain in that area and unless one puts all the three wraps back on, before lowering the main and unwraps them after lowering it (which of course we do not do...), they are somewhat transferred up the mast

I have experimented with coiling the halyard in a 'figure of 8', three straight coils and then figure of 8 and other combination.
I seems to have somewhat reduced the twisting, but at the end, when I see a bit too much twist I climb up the mast, untwist the halyard, put a few extra twists the other way and it works for another season.
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Old 03-05-2015, 07:00   #72
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Re: Rig and Sails

If anyone is interested, I took a quick video of our main dropping now that we've added 4 intermediate cars and swapped to an 11mm (compared to 14mm from the factory) dyneema core halyard.

It was blowing about 20 knots but the sail came down MUCH better than it had with the factory setup.

https://www.facebook.com/outchasings...2966978917081/


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Old 20-07-2015, 23:11   #73
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Re: Rig and Sails

Great video. This gives me real hope that my concerns over mainsail management can be resolved.

We currently own an FP Athena 38 in the Canaries and, as novice sailors, have experienced the inter island acceleration zone winds and the difficulty of reducing sail when not best prepared.

Enjoying 'deep planning' now for what we hope will be a Helia 44 in a couple of years. Yours and others' experiences are invaluable to us - thank you.

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Old 09-12-2015, 14:44   #74
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Rig and Sails

The Helia 44 comes with a standard 67 foot mast.

Has anyone purchased one with the ICW (Intracoastal Waterway) friendly 63 foot mast.

Its a no cost option that would be favored on the East Coast of the USA.

I know of 2 Helia 44's that have shaved the hardware off the top of the mast
when coming in from an offshore passage. Its an embarrassingly expensive mistake to be sure.
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Old 03-04-2016, 10:38   #75
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ICW (Intracoastal Waterway) Mast

FP Helia 44

Here is some more info on the ICW (Intracoastal Waterway) Mast.
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