Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-01-2016, 17:53   #1
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Location: Oak Hill, VA
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Helia 44
Posts: 50
Recommended reading for storm strategies for cats?

I'm a Helia (#13) owner and am looking for book recommendations (or good blog) for sailing similar catamaran in severe storm weather. I've read quite a few books by the usual suspects, but they're all monohull-based. I'm most interested in storm strategies and techniques for cats concerning when to heave to vs. forereaching, running, lying ahull, etc. Not looking for any advice on this subject/thread -- just relevant book recommendations. Thanks in advance!
__________________

__________________
SailMonAmi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 18:07   #2
Eternal Member
 
monte's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Australia
Boat: Lagoon 400
Posts: 3,650
Images: 1
Re: Recommended reading for storm strategies for cats?

Not a bad basic one http://www.amazon.com/Multihull-Seam.../dp/189866031X
__________________

__________________
monte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 18:21   #3
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon to Alaska
Boat: Wheeler Shipyard 83' ex USCG
Posts: 1,699
Re: Recommended reading for storm strategies for cats?

Read this: get a weather fax or something similar and avoid storms in advance. They are nothing to play with. Look up the El Faro sinking.
The adventure books cannot prepare you for the violence and discomfort of a serious storm. I don't believe any yacht or yacht rigging is built for storms. Nobody would pay the price.
It's common in the Pacific area to read of cats and trihulls flipped. Some found months later with no sign of the crew.
__________________
Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 19:20   #4
cruiser

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 285
Re: Recommended reading for storm strategies for cats?

drag device database:
Victor Shane's Drag Device Data Base | Using Parachutes, Sea Anchors and Drogues to Cope with Heavy Weather – Over 130 Documented Case Histories
__________________
AD28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 20:19   #5
Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
 
Palarran's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Me - Michigan / Boat - Tenerife
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 2,641
Re: Recommended reading for storm strategies for cats?

Maybe read this: Multihulls - Heavy Weather (Passive) Handling

Yeloya has two Helia's, two Orana's, and a few other FP cat's in his charter company. He sailed on his Orana from Turkey to the Caribbean, visited almost all of the Windwards and Leewards, and then returned to Turkey in a 5 month period. I've only sailed twice with him for sea trials but easily found his skill level and knowledge well above most cat sailers I've come across.
__________________
Not all who wander are lost

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/palarran/
Palarran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2016, 21:05   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
maxingout's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Fort Pierce, Phoenix
Boat: Privilege 39 Catamaran, Exit Only
Posts: 2,606
Re: Recommended reading for storm strategies for cats?

Here is a summary for you:

Storm Management for Multihull Cruisers:

SAILING UNI - JOIN TEAM MAXING OUT AS THEY SAIL AROUND THE WORLD ON THEIR PRIVILEGE 39 CATAMARAN - EXIT ONLY

All the stuff in the article worked well for me.
__________________
Dave -Sailing Vessel Exit Only

http://SailingUNI.com
http://maxingout.com
http://PositiveThinkingSailor.com
maxingout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2016, 11:00   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
akprb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Alaska
Boat: Hunter Legend 40.5
Posts: 511
Re: Recommended reading for storm strategies for cats?

I know you are asking for specific books. That being said meteorology is the best thing to focus on. Any basic text on frontal movement with a good understanding of the fundamentals. There is one in particular, name escapes me. Will find it. I say this as choosing conditions wisely and using your speed you can avoid most of this nastiness :-) A 5 knot boat does not have the same luxury and will likely be overrun once on a 750nm + passage.

We cruised extensively on 50' Cat. Given speed advantage sailed with storms and kept prevailing winds behind the beam 95% of the time. Best storm tactic is avoidance. Weather information SO plentiful these days little excuse to get caught with pants down even on 1000nm plus passages like Fiji to NZ.

Caveat-not sailing on a schedule :-)
__________________
akprb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2016, 15:06   #8
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,670
Re: Recommended reading for storm strategies for cats?

Some of you might be interested to read the post by the Frenchman who was rescued last year off the Azores, off a Lagoon 40. It can be found in Google translation somewhere in the early 200's of posts on the thread, "2015 A Bad Year in the Azores?" using the CF search. Iirc, it was <monte> who posted it.

From that heartrending post, I gleaned that the attachment points for their drogue failed, so if the OP is wanting to be prepared to cope with storm conditions, reinforcing the area of attachment with plenty more fibreglass and resin, and using large fit-to-contour of the area s/s backing plates would be necessary, and possibly stronger cleats, as well. Just mho.

Also, I think the vessel's drogue was inadequate for the conditions, he really should not have been surfing at 35 kn. The OP should decide what speed he wants to keep the boat at, and this may mean a heavier duty JSD than one might normally anticipate.

Ann

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2016, 16:26   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2013
Boat: Antares 44i
Posts: 162
Re: Recommended reading for storm strategies for cats?

The best book I've ever read on this subject is the Pardey's book, but they don't sail catamarans.
Storm Tactics Handbook: Modern Methods of Heaving-to for Survival in Extreme Conditions, 3rd Edition

The next best book is very old. On Amazon it's listed for a crazy high price (must be out of print). I'd look for an old copy for less $. It is specifically for multihulls
The Parachute Anchoring System and other tactics: Cape Horn Proven Heavy Weather Sailing for Multihulls

And you asked for books, but here is a very good Sail Magazine article on the subject that deals specifically with cats: Heavy Weather Strategies When Sailing a Catamaran - Sail Magazine

Stay safe!
__________________
Ellen & Rand
sv Golden Glow, an Antares 44i catamaran sailing around the world
svGoldenGlow.com
EllesBelles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2016, 21:35   #10
Registered User
 
UNCIVILIZED's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
Re: Recommended reading for storm strategies for cats?

By the "usual suspects", are you meaning the Dashew's free downloads of:
Mariner's Weather Handbook & Surviving The Storm

Also, there's a lot more info out there on Jordan Series Drogues now (via links on here, & on the web). And part of it, is an entire section devoted to what size attachment points you need for your boat, & using which materials. Much of it based on the boat, & drogue size.
But it covers how much extra laminate you need to add, to bolt the Drogue's chainplates to. And how big said chainplates need to be, including fastener number, & size etc.

To the OP, there's loads of info out there on JSD's, including the USCG's report on them. And links to it, & other similar info, again, is easy to find; on here, & online.

Though as has been stated, if your boat has some speed to it, then it's fairily easy to pick your window.
And even if you don't, you can still pick your window in order to minimize your likelyhood of running into bad weather systems, & or mitigating your exposure to them.

Especially given that it's pretty common for systems to be cyclical (repeating), timing wise, during various points of the year. Ditto on windows of primo weather. So you pick your window, & go.
And the data on these patterns has been around for hundreds of years.


PS: An AP that's connected to a full set of instruments, so that it can steer both to course, & to wind angle, can be a life saver.
Ditto on having a remote for it, which lets you steer around the bad bits, while you're safely tucked away inside the main cabin (assuming that your main cabin has good 360 visibility). With a full set of nav instrument repeaters in front of you, & a good seatbelt for your helm chair.
__________________

The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
UNCIVILIZED is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2016, 22:32   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
akprb's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Alaska
Boat: Hunter Legend 40.5
Posts: 511
Re: Recommended reading for storm strategies for cats?

Speed, parachute over drogue and avoid the crap. The probability of being in it next to nil. I regret buying 4000.00 parachute.
__________________
akprb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-01-2016, 23:52   #12
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2013
Location: East Africa
Boat: catalac 10m
Posts: 351
Re: Recommended reading for storm strategies for cats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailMonAmi View Post
I'm a Helia (#13) owner and am looking for book recommendations (or good blog) for sailing similar catamaran in severe storm weather. I've read quite a few books by the usual suspects, but they're all monohull-based. I'm most interested in storm strategies and techniques for cats concerning when to heave to vs. forereaching, running, lying ahull, etc. Not looking for any advice on this subject/thread -- just relevant book recommendations. Thanks in advance!
Literature on this subject should be read for sure. But for me the valuable advise of CF members who actually foubd themselves in a cat in heavy seas would be great. The different cats behave so different in heavy seas, take my Catallac 10m which has very different hull design to the modern cats behaves very different and can actually be hove to where modern cat designs heave to poorly.
Then there is the problem of waves battering the cats between hull structure. Often modern cats compromise seaworthy for more interior space.
__________________
Goosebumps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-01-2016, 04:40   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 7,923
Re: Recommended reading for storm strategies for cats?

A recent related thread here with some good discussion and a few reading references.

Drogue or Parachute on a Catamaran in a Gale?
__________________
belizesailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-01-2016, 16:36   #14
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Location: Oak Hill, VA
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Helia 44
Posts: 50
Re: Recommended reading for storm strategies for cats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
By the "usual suspects", are you meaning the Dashew's free downloads of:
Mariner's Weather Handbook & Surviving The Storm
Usual suspects (as defined by me) include, but not limited to: Joshua Slocum, SF Chichester, the Pardeys, John Kretschmer, Hal Roth, etc.

As before, these are all monohull based, and while they're excellent authors, and I have a great deal of respect for their seamanship, I always read them with a grain of salt with respect to techniques because I'm interested specifically as a cat skipper. Of course I understand my first priority is to steer clear or attempt to avoid altogether severe weather; however, (as we all know) stuff happens.

That said, thanks to you folks that provided some excellent additional reading recommendations.
__________________
SailMonAmi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-01-2016, 00:18   #15
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2013
Location: East Africa
Boat: catalac 10m
Posts: 351
Recommended reading for storm strategies for cats?

I have and even read whatever literature I could get my hands on concerning seamanship. Nothing beats encountering heavy seas and having to deal with the situation with what you have at hand on your boat! It is also true that preventing ending up in heavy seas is the best strategy. I think of 10 December 2006 when I left Maputo on my Tiki 30 weather predicted to be fantastic. When sailing in front of Zongoene coast, after anchoring on sandbank for the night circa 150 miles from Maputo, I noticed a heavy weather line of clouds on the horizon. I had been calling weather service and checked internet, no mention of bad weather! The speed with which the calm sea changed into whipping waves was unbelievable. We barely managed to lower sails. The entire day and night that followed we were battered by heavy seas Innever saw even in the North sea where I used to go out in all weather with fishing trawlers. I admire the Tiki 30 after that. Only for me no more rope mounted hull beams, they eventually came loose abd luckily I had those heavy crankable what you call them textile bands used for securing truck, and simply used my winches to winch the hulls to the beams, it wirked but awfull sqeaking sound which freaked us three out. I remember trying to see in the dark moonless night where waves came from to point Tiki in ideal direction to take them on. Early morning seas calmed somewhat and we anchored of Macaneta coast bouncing but we skeot few hours until good light. We then proceeded to see speedboat coming towards us. The people of the Clube Naval were alarmed by the weather knowing we were out there send boat tomlook for us. The weather system surprised all and claims were the system started in front of Durban and travelled with increasing speed along the coast Northwards. Conclusion, one cannot be enough prepared, imagine I wouldnt have had the equipment to which hull to beams. Never encountered such in seamanship literature. Another note, it helps to be physically fit, to be mentally prepared using whatever technique to achieve that.
__________________

__________________
Goosebumps is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
men

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Max storm surge reading zboss Anchoring & Mooring 4 03-07-2015 10:51
Recommended Reading Legend1673 Liveaboard's Forum 10 26-11-2014 13:29
Recommended Reading bazzer Fishing, Recreation & Fun 17 15-02-2011 16:45
Current Strategies in Solar Power ? Roy M Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 47 18-07-2010 06:37



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.