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Old 28-11-2016, 12:19   #1
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Prices, Belize vs Lipari/Orana

I have a question for some of the experienced FP owners on here.

Looking at various "For Sale" and brokerage sites, the Belize seems to hold it's value extremely well against newer FP's of the same relative size, the Liapri and Orana, and is similarly priced when compared to the larger Bahia.

Is there a particular reason for that? Yanmar vs Volvo? The Osmosis issues? (Neither of those would apply to the Bahia).

Is the Belize particularly desirable for some reason?

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Old 28-11-2016, 14:05   #2
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Re: Prices, Belize vs Lipari/Orana

I looked at examples of all four when choosing my current boat. The Belize Maestro just ticked more boxes for us than the others. It just felt "right" for our purpose.
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Old 06-12-2016, 13:41   #3
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Re: Prices, Belize vs Lipari/Orana

I don't know where from did you get this opinion; Lipari and Orana are newer generations of FP with better lay out in overall and easier to sail shorthanded as all the lines are to the helm station and rigid bimini that Belize doesn't have.
However, Belize is significantly lighter, hence, faster than these two models and was free of Osmosis that Lipari and Orana suffered.


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Old 06-12-2016, 17:56   #4
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Re: Prices, Belize vs Lipari/Orana

Just based on looking at average prices on yachtworld and sailboat listings. The Belize is priced very similar to the Bahia's and not much less money than a few Lipari's/Prana's. I expected a bigger price difference, and u wasn't sure if there was something I had missed in researching these different models.
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Old 07-12-2016, 13:33   #5
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Re: Prices, Belize vs Lipari/Orana

Other older FP models hold their price as well. Along with the Belize, the Maldives, Tobago, Antigua and Athena hold their price despite their age and brokers tell me they are sought after. They all have several things in common, they are lighter with a good sail area/disp ratio so faster, hand layup with few problems, and basically much simpler boats which hits a performance/comfort/price sweet spot which some cruisers want. As more and more manufacturers chase the charter market following the Lagoon direction, it is becoming hard to find a mass produced and hence affordable cruising cat that will sail at low wind speeds which is where most sailing takes place. Hence other threads on this forum bemoaning the increasing use of motoring by cats
I struggle to to imagine moving up? to a Lucia 40 at nearly double the displacement of our Athena but just 6" (150mm) longer. I know I am shouting at the wind as many people when chartering want the maximum no of berths, 4 heads, deck fridge, AC (and hence generator) etc etc and thats the mass market which FP is chasing. Don't like it though.
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Old 07-12-2016, 18:54   #6
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Re: Prices, Belize vs Lipari/Orana

I would dispute the comment that the Belize was faster than the Orana. We participated in two of the FP owners rallys which included friendly races. We found the Belizes and Oranas sailing at pretty much the same speed. We were able to stay ahead of most of the Belizes on our Orana.

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Old 08-12-2016, 00:16   #7
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Re: Prices, Belize vs Lipari/Orana

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryv View Post
I would dispute the comment that the Belize was faster than the Orana. We participated in two of the FP owners rallys which included friendly races. We found the Belizes and Oranas sailing at pretty much the same speed. We were able to stay ahead of most of the Belizes on our Orana.

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You are probably better sailor than the owner of Belize..

I've sailed both; my experience is that in light winds (7-10 kts true) Belize is slightly faster. at 10-18 kts they are about the same, after that Orana could be faster. Generally speaking at close hauled Belize is again a bit better, after 60-70 AWA Orana prevails.
As said, this is my experience, you might have a different one..

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Old 09-12-2016, 04:03   #8
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Re: Prices, Belize vs Lipari/Orana

I did not include the Lavezzi and Orana in my discussion as I regard them as transitional designs from the old to new FP design philosophy. Both are heavier than their precedecessors (the Athena and Belize respectively) but not as heavy as their successors the (Lipari then Lucia and Helia) and both are earliest vacuum infusion layup which I think most people regard as problematic and I suspect some will avoid considering as a result.

As Yeloya has pointed out, the difference in performance from Belize to Orana is not massive, but you would expect the difference Belize to Helia and Athena to Lucia to be significant in light winds because of the marked difference in displacements. Of course, downwind in 20 kts, all these will go well and you would expect the difference between generations to be small, but to me, sailing rather than motoring in light winds is important.

We actually regard the Orana or Lipari as our only choice of next boat but layup durability is a big concern to us and we would have to be satisfied regarding this for the actual hull we intended to purchase. Also, we would want to recoup some light weather performance with folding props, bowsprit, screecher etc..
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Old 09-12-2016, 09:29   #9
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Re: Prices, Belize vs Lipari/Orana

How does the load carrying capacity of the different models compare?
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:27   #10
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Re: Prices, Belize vs Lipari/Orana

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Originally Posted by PhiSig1071 View Post
How does the load carrying capacity of the different models compare?
Very close; around 3200-3400 kg.However, with her sleaker hulls Belize would start losing her performance faster than Orana when is being equally loaded.

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