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Old 18-02-2015, 09:20   #16
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Re: Owner's Initial Feedback on Hull #2 - Cuvée

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjgriffin007 View Post
Might I crassly ask what that fabulous vessel cost you?
October 2014 List price = $1.13M (before any negotiated discounts) for the boat as currently configured. This includes
- Ocean delivery from France to US (including insurance and requisite safety equipment)
- All the optional equipment previously mentioned, and other bigger ticket items such as
- 13.5kW generator
- 360W solar panels
- Raymarine electronics package (e125 MFD, e95 MFD, i50/i60 wind-speed-depth instruments, Ray55 VHF and remote at helm, EV-400 autopilot)
- Outdoor cushions (33 total!)
- 6 zone AC (2 in salon, 1 per cabin, 92,000 BTU total)
- Propane barbeque with extra 3rd tank
- Fitout of port forepeak crew cabin
- Charter commissioning equipment (deck gear including secondary anchor, soft goods, galley equipment, safety gear, cruising guides & charts)
- 12' RIB with 15 hp

Add to that US import duty of about 1.7% on the net price, plus applicable state sales tax (capped at $15,000 for Maryland) for a total of $1.16M before discounts.

Looking at the FP options list, the big ticket items that we don't have include:
- Radar, AIS (both on the to-do list)
- Fitout of Starboard forepeak crew cabin with head & sink (on the to-do list)
- Bowsprit and gennaker
- Teak deck in cockpit/transom
- TV
- Washing machine/dryer, Dishwasher
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Old 18-02-2015, 09:26   #17
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Re: Owner's Initial Feedback on Hull #2 - Cuvée

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Originally Posted by Cuvee View Post
October 2014 List price = $1.13M (before any negotiated discounts) for the boat as currently configured. <snip>
Hello,

Thank you very much for this post. There are others who would not be so forthcoming.

Kindest,

Sundae
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Old 19-02-2015, 17:11   #18
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Re: Owner's Initial Feedback on Hull #2 - Cuvée

Thanks for that very forthcoming info! And you got a great deal, IMHO...


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Old 19-02-2015, 18:22   #19
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Re: Owner's Initial Feedback on Hull #2 - Cuvée

Quote:
PATH TO PURCHASE: I began my new catamaran search having previously chartered the Lagoon 38, Lagoon 41, FP Lavezzi 40, FP Bahia 46, R&C Leopard 47, and R&C Leopard 46. I really liked the Leopard 46 design, but for a purchase I wanted something just a bit bigger with more headroom (I’m 6’5”), a larger owner’s cabin, and that could still comfortably accommodate my typical crew size of 5-8 family and friends.
Congratulations on your purchase! I read your post with interest.

Would you mind telling me why you liked the R&C Leopard over the Bahia?

I'm in the market for a slightly smaller boat than your Saba.

TIA
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Old 20-02-2015, 08:31   #20
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Re: Owner's Initial Feedback on Hull #2 - Cuvée

Thanks Tia.
Some things I didn't like with the Bahia 46: top loading refrigerator (I hate dumpster diving to find the items that have fallen to the bottom and getting wacked in the head by the lid); no separate shower stalls in the heads (at least in the 4 cabin charter version); cockpit was a bit too enclosed so you had to climb over the seats and coaming and squeeze under the bimini to get to the side decks; athwartship bunks in the aft cabins that are full hull width but still too short for me and require one partner to crawl over the other in the middle of the night if needing to get up; not a fan of the bulkhead mounted helm in the cockpit - I don't like staring out a 12" gap between the Bimini and coach roof and having limited view of the sails (I much prefer the semi-flybridge raised helm of the Leopard 46 and Saba 50 which helps to open up the cockpit, gives me better visibility, and can be setup with a helm enclosure for foul weather).

I had the same helm design, lack of stall shower, and too short bunk dislikes with the older Leopard 47. The bunks were also up on high platforms which significantly limited the ceiling clearance and I found to be a hazard getting out of at night. As I recall the stb engine bay housed the generator and it was so cramped that I could not physically squeeze myself in to perform the daily maintenance checks.


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Old 20-02-2015, 08:39   #21
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Re: Owner's Initial Feedback on Hull #2 - Cuvée

I don't recall if the Leopard 47 had a top loading frig. It does have a much more open cockpit design than the Bahia 46.

With the Leopard 46 you get the front loading frig and freezer, raised helm with improved view IMO, fore/aft bunks with good ceiling clearance, stall showers, and I think a better cockpit design than the Leopard 47.

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Old 20-02-2015, 09:45   #22
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Re: Owner's Initial Feedback on Hull #2 - Cuvée

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Originally Posted by Cuvee View Post
Thanks Tia.
Some things I didn't like with the Bahia 46: top loading refrigerator (I hate dumpster diving to find the items that have fallen to the bottom and getting wacked in the head by the lid); no separate shower stalls in the heads (at least in the 4 cabin charter version); cockpit was a bit too enclosed so you had to climb over the seats and coaming and squeeze under the bimini to get to the side decks; athwartship bunks in the aft cabins that are full hull width but still too short for me and require one partner to crawl over the other in the middle of the night if needing to get up; not a fan of the bulkhead mounted helm in the cockpit - I don't like staring out a 12" gap between the Bimini and coach roof and having limited view of the sails (I much prefer the semi-flybridge raised helm of the Leopard 46 and Saba 50 which helps to open up the cockpit, gives me better visibility, and can be setup with a helm enclosure for foul weather).

I had the same helm design, lack of stall shower, and too short bunk dislikes with the older Leopard 47. The bunks were also up on high platforms which significantly limited the ceiling clearance and I found to be a hazard getting out of at night. As I recall the stb engine bay housed the generator and it was so cramped that I could not physically squeeze myself in to perform the daily maintenance checks.


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Thank you very much for the detailed reply. Best of luck to you with your beautiful new yacht.
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Old 20-02-2015, 13:01   #23
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Re: Owner's Initial Feedback on Hull #2 - Cuvée

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saleen411 View Post
I'm in the market for a slightly smaller boat than your Saba.

TIA
Bahia is not "slightly smaller" than Saba; she' only 4 ft shorter but space inside is probably just the half of Saba and even less than Helia 44.
However, Bahia will be almost as fast as Saba and definately faster than Helia under sail.

Cheers

Yeloya
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Old 20-02-2015, 15:13   #24
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Re: Owner's Initial Feedback on Hull #2 - Cuvée

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Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
Bahia is not "slightly smaller" than Saba; she' only 4 ft shorter but space inside is probably just the half of Saba and even less than Helia 44.
However, Bahia will be almost as fast as Saba and definately faster than Helia under sail.

Cheers

Yeloya
Good to know.....there's just the 2 of us so don't need HUGE space. Since you're the expert and I very much respect your opinion....do you have a favorite FP in the 40 to 46 range?

Saba is an FP, albeit a bigger one, so hope not too much of a thread drift.

Thanks Yeloya
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Old 20-02-2015, 15:57   #25
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Re: Owner's Initial Feedback on Hull #2 - Cuvée

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saleen411 View Post
Good to know.....there's just the 2 of us so don't need HUGE space. Since you're the expert and I very much respect your opinion....do you have a favorite FP in the 40 to 46 range?

Saba is an FP, albeit a bigger one, so hope not too much of a thread drift.

Thanks Yeloya
Well, it obviously depends a great deal on yr budget..
If you can afford a brand new or well kept second hand Helia, it's a good compromise between sailing properties and nicer finish, huge spaces.
If you are happy with a bit less space, you can do w/out the fly bridge and accept a bit poorer finish, Orana is the way to go. It will cost much less and sail equally well or slightly better than Helia.(a bit lighter and no fly bridge, thus, less windage)
Again, if the space is not an issue but the budget is, then you can go for Belize. This is the fastest one among FP's of this size. She is a very robust and well made boat but I don't like the cockpit lay out, a step between the cockpit and the saloon, the genoa winches that are on each corner and the mainsail hallyard winch is on the mast. They don't have a hard top bimini too..(Starting with Orana all recent models of FP have all the lines at helm station and this is very important in long passages when you are on yr own or have to tack every half an hour..)
Everything said for Belize is alo valid for Bahia She 's a bit longer but the concept is identical.
Lavezzi 40 is also a good option, smaller version of Belize. They were unfortunately hit by osmosis most of them (like many Orana's as well) and if you decide to buy one, you better check it carefully. Many of them have been treated under the supervision of FP and if so, it should be fine.

These are my personal opinions and I am not supposed to be an expert. I had however a chance to sail all of them more than once, we had them in fleet and/or serviced them.


Cheers

Yeloya
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Old 20-02-2015, 18:54   #26
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Re: Owner's Initial Feedback on Hull #2 - Cuvée

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These are my personal opinions and I am not supposed to be an expert. I had however a chance to sail all of them more than once, we had them in fleet and/or serviced them.
I appreciate your EXPERT opinion sir!

Thank you very much for the informative response.

Jerry
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Old 22-02-2015, 08:56   #27
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Re: Owner's Initial Feedback on Hull #2 - Cuvée

How long does the purchase, then the build and final possession process all take. I've searched forums but couldn't find anything.

Thanks
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Old 22-02-2015, 15:37   #28
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Re: Owner's Initial Feedback on Hull #2 - Cuvée

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Originally Posted by PixieBobs View Post
How long does the purchase, then the build and final possession process all take. I've searched forums but couldn't find anything.

Thanks
If you are talking about Saba, they are sold out for at least 8 to 10 months; if you order now, nothing before Jan 2016. Some dealers however are pre-ordering before selling to their customers and booking a boat from the factory , thus, they can have a Saba available earlier.
FP may change their production plan (devote more lines to Saba..) but as far as I know all of the models are selling pretty well right now.
I think (I cannot confirm it, just a guess) next step would be to replace Mahé with probably a bit longer one , 37 footer ??


Cheers

Yeloya
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Old 19-03-2015, 08:54   #29
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Re: Owner's Initial Feedback on Hull #2 - Cuvée

Thanks for starting this thread, Cuvee. Please continue expanding on your experience with this adventure. I'd like to hear more about the whole episode.

We are planning on a 45 -50 cat - Option A: to live aboard and cruise. We'll probably crew/charter for several weeks/year to off set costs. Option B: we put the boat into a fleet for a couple years, use it with owner privileges then live aboard.

I see you on the CYOA site but they list you as available year round? We've used CYOA in the winter and thinking about the Chesapeake for this summer? How does that work splitting the year by charter base? I thought I recalled hearing the CYOA (great folks) staff mention a dealership connection in Annapolis..? do you plan to do the semi-annual delivery yourself?

What do you think about the weight of the Saba - how important is it to you for your type of sailing - relative to the other hulls you considered - do you really notice it - is it really a factor...

Please keep posting.
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Old 20-03-2015, 19:10   #30
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Re: Owner's Initial Feedback on Hull #2 - Cuvée

Thanks MSS. Good luck with your search.

With the rapid decline in the Euro, I could have saved a “boatload” by delaying the purchase until now, but I probably would not have a Saba 50 until 2016….and would have 2 years less to enjoy it. The last minute approval of the 2014 tax extenders bill has at least helped reduce the sting of watching the declining USD price of the Saba 50.

Our boat will be at CYOA until mid-May, and then I’ll sail her north to Annapolis along with a crew of 3. She’ll be available for Chesapeake charters from Cruise Annapolis through September. My current plan is to again personally deliver her south for the winter charter season. Commercial rate for a full professional crewed one-way delivery from Annapolis to St Thomas of this boat is $8000~$8500 so it helps if you are able to perform your own delivery.

I am eager to see how the Chesapeake charter season materializes. Our Saba 50 may be the largest bareboat catamaran currently offered on the Chesapeake.

There are some added costs with splitting charter bases due to wear-and-tear from the delivery, and potentially the costs for a professional crew. On the other hand, I have the opportunity to seek out the best value/best quality from either the Annapolis area or St Thomas for any major boat upgrades and elective maintenance. Through my relationship with two boutique charter companies, I also get the benefits of both their experiences and opinions as I’m fine tuning the equipment on board.

On the revenue side, I probably lose 1 or 2 USVI/BVI charters in May when the boat is being delivered north. However, the summer charter rates are substantially higher in the Chesapeake than in the USVI/BVI. Also, the CYOA base is closed for hurricane season from mid-August to near-end October.

In terms of weight of the Saba, I was pleased with the performance when I sailed it in January though we had only a few days with winds above 12 knots. For the conditions we experienced, its speed was at least comparable to some large charter cats I’ve sailed on including RC Leopard 47, RC Leopard 46, and FP Bahia 46, and certainly more comfortable. Here’s a comparison of advertised upwind sail area/light displacement ratios for production cats in the size range I was considering: Lagoon 52 – 6.1, Leopard 48 – 8.5, Saba 50 – 9.0, Nautitech 542 – 9.2, St Francis 50 – 11.5, Catana C47 – 12.7.

The vast majority of my sailing is going to be with a large group of non-sailing family and friends for weeklong trips, not a husband & wife team for a world-cruise, so the multiple outdoor living areas of the Saba plus its single-handing capability appealed to me. At the same time, the specs indicated she should provide good sailing performance. Lastly I wanted a reliable vessel. This hull #2 boat now has over 7000 sea miles and has had only minimal issues. On the trans-Atlantic delivery from La Rochelle to Annapolis the 2-man crew skirted a mid-ocean hurricane with high winds and high seas with no breakdowns. They also left La Rochelle at the same time as a FP Sanya 57 and arrived two days earlier to Annapolis. I think FP is delivering a very robust boat from their factory.

I’ll share my delivery observations after I return in late May.
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